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Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

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Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do teenagers not need fathers? I understand what you're saying, but the point is that it's silly to set up a false dichotomy between entrepreneurship and family and attempt to force the entrepreneur to choose. I believe that the startup community is much poorer because of the tendency to do this, and I'm extremely suspicious of anyone who'd advocate it.

Is it so hard to be away for 3 months? Doing a startup instead of taking a stable job involves tradeoffs, like all choices. How much of a tradeoff you take depends on you. You can move your entire family to the Bay Area, with the tradeoffs that entails (uprooting family, more expensive housing). You can move to the Bay for 3-4 months with the intention of permanently setting up the startup back home, with its own tra…

There is a false dichotomy. Not asking for a free lunch. I think these are real concerns for entrepreneurs with dependents. Is it possible to be away for 3 months? Sure, it's possible, but almost everyone in this group, entrepreneurs with dependents, will tell you it's not worth it for the kind of terms that are being offered, and that it shouldn't be necessary to leave the family behind in order to start a business. It creates a great deal of strain to leave your family for that long, and the rewards need to be obviously worthwhile to justify it. In my estimation, and afaict, the estimation of almost all others in my peer group, the current startup programs do not make this tradeoff obviously worthwhile. And, for the third time, I think the bigger loss is on the side of the startup ecosystem when they create programs that are hostile to mature founders.

I guess it's hard to explain to someone who hasn't been in the predicament.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many investors are not very kind to founders with families and mortgages. YC itself is a horrible deal for anyone that's not a college dropout. Move out to SF for 3 months, leaving wife, kids, and property behind to fend for themselves, shack up in a tiny apartment with a co-founder, and get paid nothing for $20k and 5-7% of your company ? That's alright man, pg can keep focusing on his college dropouts (of both sexe…

It would be hard to appreciate this without thinking like an investor. Let's say you pitched an investor. He has seen your passion and drive 100s of other times before. He decides to give you $200K as seed money so you can keep getting same income as your corporate cushy job. He knows your chance of failure is 90%. Next year very likely investor is going to loose all of that money. On the other hand, you have no down…

1) Investors can vastly improve their odds by knowing what they're investing in. There's a reason Paul Graham and YC are the gold standard in these circles now, and that is because Paul Graham and YC are one of the only informed investors in the game. Practically everyone else is just playing a favorable casino game.

2) If an investor wants to give you $200k seed money, and you can make a justifiable case that you need $200k to maintain a reasonable lifestyle based on your family's needs, then you're going to need more than $200k.

That said, I don't argue that most founders need $200k, I just argue that they should be given reasonable allowances to provide some basic decencies for themselves and their families, instead of ending each pay cycle with less than ten bucks left in their pockets.

3) The risk should be appropriate on both sides. If $200k is a risk that jeopardizes the welfare of an investor, he shouldn't be investing it; "never invest more than you can afford to lose". And if taking a job at a startup is a risk that jeopardizes the welfare of a founder and his family, he shouldn't be risking it, for the same purpose. A good founder is worth a good salary. He probably shouldn't be rolling in the dough, but most investors seem skeptical if the founder isn't living off of ramen. This is not acceptable if you have a family to support.

What does a VC really lose if a company goes under? Not that much. The founders are pouring years of their life into the development of a product. They are asking their friends and colleagues to trust them to build something great and join them, transferring responsibility for their livelihoods as well. Founders have a legal and moral obligation and fiduciary duty to output the best product possible with their investment. Most founders take this responsibility very seriously. The failure of this venture is a major emotional loss to the founder. And what's the loss to the VC? Oh yeah, a rather insignificant portion of their total play, because it was specifically engineered to be that way. In fact, most of them hardly notice when these failures occur, unless they begin to occur en masse.

I find the argument "VCs have everything to lose if you don't take a 50-70% pay cut!" despicably shallow. VCs never have anything to lose except money, and certainly make sure never to jeopardize that in a serious manner, so what do VCs have to lose? Almost nothing. What does a founder have to lose? Oh, a few years of his life, emotional health and well-being, reputation and trust among his family and friends, etc. Just petty stuff compared to the $200k check an investor will write and instantly forget about.

The founder should be made to put even more on the line! He shouldn't be allowed a salary that's commensurate even with a cruise-control corporate position for all that responsibility. He shouldn't even be allowed a salary that will afford him a few basic privileges like a decent mode of transportation, decent living quarters in a decent neighborhood, or a bit of leisure every so often. No income to fiddle with new gadgets or experiment. No room to breathe. On top of the stress of the company, he must endure the stress of barely meting out enough to make his mortgage, which several people rely upon for shelter. He should do all of this because he needs more to lose, so that the VCs are satisfied.

The founder's only way to make any decent income backported over those years of indentured servitude is to make the VCs a billion dollars first. Seriously. And if anyone doesn't like this, then the VCs try to shame him and lecture him about the stakes. Remember how I said VCs depend heavily on the naivety of founders to maximize profits? Here you go.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#33
post #4

I suppose it depends on who you are. If you have a family and a mortgage, the answer may be yes.

Many investors are not very kind to founders with families and mortgages. YC itself is a horrible deal for anyone that's not a college dropout. Move out to SF for 3 months, leaving wife, kids, and property behind to fend for themselves, shack up in a tiny apartment with a co-founder, and get paid nothing for $20k and 5-7% of your company ? That's alright man, pg can keep focusing on his college dropouts (of both sexe…

The general "YC gives you not so much for quite a lot of equity" critique would have made a lot of sense ~5 years ago, when all you'd reasonably count on from doing YC is $10-20k. Currently, you're structurally guaranteed a substantial follow-on investment on terms which are practically "free money", and if your startup is not a walking zombie you're all but a mortal lock on a seed round at quite possibly the most systematically founder-friendly funding feeding frenzy terms in the Valley.

That's if you value the actual participation in YC (and later in their mafia) at nothing. I'd personally suggest, on the basis of numerous reports by founders I find personally credible, that it's a really good network to be in if your life plan includes doing a funded trajectory sort of company.

Incidentally, I've got a wee bit of experience with the boostrapped software business thing, and unless you do the consultancy to product route (which has plenty to recommend it) you're most probably going to take a dip from $120k to $150k for a couple of years at the outset. I know people who paid themselves that in year 2, but that's not incredibly common, and I'm coming up blank thinking of any bootstrapped product companies which made their founders that right out of the gate. (It's doable in consulting -- aggressive, but clearly doable.)

If that's a huge problem for you, I recommend a job at AmaGooFaceSoft. They're all good companies, they cut quite steady checks, and there is nothing wrong with taking their money if your family situation demands an iron floor at $120k.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#34
The book "The Incredible Secret Money Machine" (ISBN 0672215624) is my resource for bootstrapping advice. And I have to agree with Don Lancaster: try to bootstrap without early investment.

The case of Everpix is a great example. With an early investment it's very hard to keep track of your startup's feasibility. And your startup is tied to the original plan (your promise to investors). So it's very hard to make changes when you discover the startup plan isn't working.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#35
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months on a very low wage (that is what the $20k is for..), away from your friends and family, living in a tiny apartment is nothing compared to working on something you feel exceptionally passionate about. Chances are you'll never find that problem. Most people don't. Those problems are rare, and solutions to them rarer still. But that's fine. If you have a business idea that you're keen on but don't want to g…

There's nothing wrong with other people getting rich off your success, as long as the ratios of wealth are commensurate with the value provided. This is very rarely the case in typical investment scenarios. I have less respect for the man that lives to introduce the greatest SaaS platform ever built than I have for the man that lives to see that his home and family is well provided for. Most grown-ups making grown-up…

Having permanent responsibilities and dependents means you have much less time to work on your startup, thus reducing your probability for success. Why should investors be interested in higher risk without a commensurate higher return? Obviously, there are other factors involved, but this is a very significant one.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with other people getting rich off your success, as long as the ratios of wealth are commensurate with the value provided. This is very rarely the case in typical investment scenarios. I have less respect for the man that lives to introduce the greatest SaaS platform ever built than I have for the man that lives to see that his home and family is well provided for. Most grown-ups making grown-up…

Having permanent responsibilities and dependents means you have much less time to work on your startup, thus reducing your probability for success. Why should investors be interested in higher risk without a commensurate higher return? Obviously, there are other factors involved, but this is a very significant one.

Because there is a commensurate higher return. The founder's family provides a mechanism to enforce a decent work-life balance and provide for the founder's emotional needs. There is also a high likelihood that founders with real dependents and obligations are more realistic, mature, and serious than founders without these things. Realism, maturity, and seriousness are all desirable traits in entrepreneurs.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#37
We bootstrapped our app www.staffsquared.com.

While there are limits on what we can do using profits from our main business and income from the app as it grows, I love the fact that we got the app off of the ground organically. I think spolsky said that when you bootstrap you can only grow the business in line with revenue - which is of course true and a difficult trick to pull off.

I think more importantly, the process of bootstrapping forces you to go about recruitment, sales, marketing, development etc etc in a way that is more innovative (as opposed to just throwing money at problems to make them go away). While you won't want to scale a company using these money saving techniques, they are still excellent tools and skills that can be applied to a business at any stage and put the founding team in to a mindset of sustainability.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#38

We bootstrapped our app www.staffsquared.com. While there are limits on what we can do using profits from our main business and income from the app as it grows, I love the fact that we got the app off of the ground organically. I think spolsky said that when you bootstrap you can only grow the business in line with revenue - which is of course true and a difficult trick to pull off. I think more importantly, the proc…

I saw that staffsquared was built by Atlas, which looks to be a client services agency.

I've been hearing of startups taking on client work as a means to fund products. Is that essentially what you guys did? I think It's a noble way to bootstrap but am curious of the implications that stem from splitting your time between client and product.

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#39
post #4

I suppose it depends on who you are. If you have a family and a mortgage, the answer may be yes.

Many investors are not very kind to founders with families and mortgages. YC itself is a horrible deal for anyone that's not a college dropout. Move out to SF for 3 months, leaving wife, kids, and property behind to fend for themselves, shack up in a tiny apartment with a co-founder, and get paid nothing for $20k and 5-7% of your company ? That's alright man, pg can keep focusing on his college dropouts (of both sexe…

> The startup community is missing out on a lot of extremely useful experience and maturity with these cheapskate shenanigans. Of course, the investors are happy to lack this, because exploitation of naivety in founders is one of their primary mechanisms to maximize profit.

Perhaps the SV Startup Community is but as far as the Midwest and East Coast goes; 90% of the founders I interact with have a house and kids. The biggest difference in business is that most of these companies actually have mechanisms for generating revenue. Aside from the fact they are solving 'real world' problems, not just building iPhone apps that delete the picture after you take it...

Re: Bootstrapping Your Startup: Do You Really Need Early Investment?

#40
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having permanent responsibilities and dependents means you have much less time to work on your startup, thus reducing your probability for success. Why should investors be interested in higher risk without a commensurate higher return? Obviously, there are other factors involved, but this is a very significant one.

Because there is a commensurate higher return. The founder's family provides a mechanism to enforce a decent work-life balance and provide for the founder's emotional needs. There is also a high likelihood that founders with real dependents and obligations are more realistic, mature, and serious than founders without these things. Realism, maturity, and seriousness are all desirable traits in entrepreneurs.

Who's to say that a founder without a family will not posses realism, maturity, or seriousness. If anything, I would turn it around and say that being a founder and having a family is like trying to have your cake and eat it too, which is not realistic. Delayed gratification is one of the prevailing signs of maturity, and postponing settling down and starting a family until after establishing a business would be a clear example of it. And someone who consistently works very long hours is if anything serious.

We can argue these points all day, but the reality is, unless you can provide evidence that founders with families possess these attributes in measurably greater quantities, and with statistically significant higher probability of success, whether or not having a family is an asset or not in achieving success with a startup is purely subjective.

On the other hand, the number of available working hours, and how more work will result in greater likelihood of success is pretty objective. There may be diminishing returns as the number of hours increase, but at least up to a pretty high point, those returns will still be positive.

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