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Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

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Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#31

Post by adamors »

icn2 wrote: post #14

It is not just language. It is the platform behind language. You choose python/ruby your stack probably is opensource/linux stack. If you choose c# you probably is stuck with windows stack, (in which you don't have a lot options like open source stack).

> probably is stuck with windows stack

You're also stuck with licenses for everything from your development environment to your web server, database and not to mention operating system.

Compared to Python/Ruby where development cost can be $0.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#32

Post by Xelom »

steveklabnik wrote: post #26
Xelom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I open a new console application in Visual Studio. I have all those boilerplate ready for me so I'm also typing: Console.WriteLine("Hello, World!"); That's all. So I'm not even talking about the greatness of the C# IDE.

Then you're in Windows.... And Visual Sudio is a best in class IDE, but that still means it's an IDE. (read: there is just a MASSIVE culture gap. It's just as unfathomable to Ruby/Python people why you'd ever use C#.)

I really don't see any bad point of using and IDE. Or being in Windows... It's making me a lot productive. I don't have to search the docs when I forget a function, it is there with intellisense(and explanation of it). I can debug every piece of my code with the values of my variables. It handles a lot of the boilerplate for me too.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#33

Post by adamors »

Xelom wrote: post #29
adamors wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I open a new console application in Visual Studio That's the thing, you need an IDE to be able to skip the boilerplate, whereas both Python and Ruby have a great REPL that is available from virtually every terminal emulator.

I like my IDE. It makes the development really easy. I have intellisense and fantastic debug features. I install it one time and open it every time like how you open your terminal.

I'm just saying that C# comes with a lot of baggage. You may like that baggage, but most people who chose Python/Ruby instead of C# don't.

Personally, I like C# the language. I hate the baggage.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#34

Post by mturmon »

One thing that has not come up in other comments -- how many languages do you speak? From the tone of your comment, it seems like, not many.

If so, you owe it to yourself to diversify your language set. Which way you go does not matter so much as going somewhere. So don't over analyze it, just write some stuff in Python for a couple of months and see how it feels. The learning curve is not steep.

As you do this, don't waste energy trying to write C# code using Python, or giving up because feature X is not there.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#35

Post by jisaacstone »

As an experienced Python dev who recently started programming primarily in java: You should build something big in a scripting language - probably ruby or python - the different style really will make you a better developer.

I think learning java made me better ad designing classes (I never explicitly used a singleton in python before) and helped a bit in my thinking about concurrency.

For python or ruby try to follow the common idioms rather than programming in a familiar style. I'd recommend avoiding classes altogether at first, trying to get as much done with the built-in data structures and functional aspects of the languages.

For me the thing I miss most in java is the interactive interpreter. I usually develop with an ipython instance open so I can test out different ideas and explore the features of a new package quickly. I believe that is why scripting languages are favored by hackers and startups.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#36

Post by charlesju »

It's simple. Speed and cost.

Python/Ruby projects cost less fixed cost to develop and maintain. They cost more to run and scale.

Startups lack development and maintenance costs and generally scaling dollars are followed by revenue or additional funding to finance that cost.

--

Additionally Python/Ruby have a lot more features, frameworks, extensions that specially deal with modern startup issues.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#37

Post by Sanddancer »

theorique wrote: post #8

And I can't seem the find features of C# in Python. Which features of C# are you looking for in Python that you can't find? Also, keep in mind that something that is written in good, idiomatic C# might need to use different idioms in Python in order to make sense as a Python program (and vice versa).

I'm not the original poster, but one of the things that I can see as much easier in c# than in python is process control. The power of the .net process library [0] seems to be much greater than the power of the python process library [1]. Being able to create events on process behavior, etc is rather useful, and the python tools don't seem to give anywhere near that amount of flexibility.

[0] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.diagnostics.p...

[1] http://docs.python.org/2/library/os.html

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#38

Post by spoiler »

Xelom wrote: post #32
steveklabnik wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're in Windows.... And Visual Sudio is a best in class IDE, but that still means it's an IDE. (read: there is just a MASSIVE culture gap. It's just as unfathomable to Ruby/Python people why you'd ever use C#.)

I really don't see any bad point of using and IDE. Or being in Windows... It's making me a lot productive. I don't have to search the docs when I forget a function, it is there with intellisense(and explanation of it). I can debug every piece of my code with the values of my variables. It handles a lot of the boilerplate for me too.

Like the parent of your comment said: There is nothing bad about it. It's a cultural gap.

I would never resort to a language like C#. It doesn't mean I think less of the language. I just prefer Ruby.

I like not having to use IDEs. I like my text editors.

Discussing languages is like discussion flavours. It's just preference. It's like asking me why I prefer bananas over apples. I just do.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#39

Post by steveklabnik »

Xelom wrote: post #32
steveklabnik wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're in Windows.... And Visual Sudio is a best in class IDE, but that still means it's an IDE. (read: there is just a MASSIVE culture gap. It's just as unfathomable to Ruby/Python people why you'd ever use C#.)

I really don't see any bad point of using and IDE. Or being in Windows... It's making me a lot productive. I don't have to search the docs when I forget a function, it is there with intellisense(and explanation of it). I can debug every piece of my code with the values of my variables. It handles a lot of the boilerplate for me too.

As I said, it's culture. C# is a pretty decent language, but all of this is so far removed from what I (and others) want that they sound like negatives, not positives.

In the exact same way that I might say "I use Arch Linux, and the only GUI program is Firefox. I live my entire life in the terminal, in vim, and I use languages that have no ceremony in the first place and prefer log statements to debuggers." That probably sounds like all downside to you.

Use whatever you like. It's not that important.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#40

Post by quii »

Xelom wrote: post #22
3pt14159 wrote: post #17

using System; public class Hello { public static void Main() { Console.WriteLine("Hello, World!"); } } vs print "Hello, World!" Everything is just simpler in python and ruby.

If I open a new console application in Visual Studio. I have all those boilerplate ready for me so I'm also typing: Console.WriteLine("Hello, World!"); That's all. So I'm not even talking about the greatness of the C# IDE.

Boilerplate isn't a good thing, even if it's auto generated there is still overhead
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