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Money can buy happiness

economist.com

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Re: Money can buy happiness

#31

Post by rtpg »

beering wrote: post #16

This appears on HN coincidentally after the discussion on rating differences between cultures[1], so that different countries may have different views about what a scale of 1-10 means. A 7 in Brazil might not be a 7 in India, for example. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7044833

This is by far the biggest issue I have with any sort of international "happiness" scale. Some people like to complain a lot more than others, and culture-wide differences can be huge.

For example, the Economist had an article on the general malaise that hits the French (http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591749-bl...).

Re: Money can buy happiness

#32

Post by gruseom »

The study uses an odd and rather dubious measure of "happiness":

Gallup asked respondents [...] to imagine a "satisfaction ladder" in which the top step represents a respondent's best possible life. Those being polled are then asked where on the ladder they stand

What the results may show is that fantasies about happiness, such as "if only I had more money", lose power as one gets more money. If you run out of fantasies about how you might be happier, it does not follow that you are happy. It could be the opposite! Perhaps the article should be titled, "Money weakens the imagination".

In any case, studies that define "happiness" very differently should not be described as "casting doubt" on one another.

Edit: looking at the paper itself, the "imaginary ladder" was one of two questions asked; the other was (paraphrased) "how satisfied are you on a scale of 1 to 10?" I don't know how the data differs between those two questions.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#33

Post by bane »

Money is like engine oil. An engine without enough runs poorly, but it doesn't take all that much to get it to run smoothly. More than that doesn't help or hurt, it just sits in a reservoir somewhere. You can get a bigger engine that uses more oil, but beyond some point it just doesn't matter much.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#34

Post by scottfr »

Abstract of the cited article (http://www.nber.org/papers/w18992?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_mediu...):

Many scholars have argued that once “basic needs” have been met, higher income is no longer associated with higher in subjective well-being. We assess the validity of this claim in comparisons of both rich and poor countries, and also of rich and poor people within a country. Analyzing multiple datasets, multiple definitions of “basic needs” and multiple questions about well-being, we find no support for this claim. The relationship between well-being and income is roughly linear-log and does not diminish as incomes rise. If there is a satiation point, we are yet to reach it.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#35

Post by dllthomas »

"Even more striking, the relationship between income and happiness hardly changes as incomes rise. Moving from rich to richer seems to raise happiness just as much as moving from poor to less poor."

That's misleading (to be charitable...). Doubling your income seems to raise happiness as much, whether you're moving form poor to less poor or rich to more rich, within the ranges looked at. Adding $5000 means a lot more happiness for the poor than the wealthy.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#36

Post by rtpg »

billyjobob wrote: post #28

The participants were not asked how happy they were, they were asked where they stood on a 'satisfaction ladder' with the best life they could imagine at the top. Many people may be perfectly happy, but they know their position on the wealth scale and imagine that they would feel more satisfied at the top of that scale.

people are actually pretty bad at defining where they are on the wealth scale. For example, loads of very rich Americans seem to think they're middle class (the WSJ once portrayed a middle-class family as earning $100000 a year, which actually places them in the top quintile).

This article describes how it is a relatively universal factor though (everyone thinks they're kinda in the middle)(http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/everyone-is-mid...)

Re: Money can buy happiness

#37

Post by rtpg »

marquis wrote: post #4

In regards to subjective happiness and income, I like to pose the question: Would you rather earn $80,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $100,000, or would you rather earn $100,000 and live in a neighbourhood of those earning $80,000. Money and happiness is entirely subjective according to your environment.

Depends on where you are. After all, living in a rich environment might get you better public services. And it's not like you exchange salaries with everyone you meet.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#38

Post by jheriko »

leoedin wrote: post #3

The income scale is logarithmic, so the apparently linear lines that you see are actually curved. The returns in happiness per $ earned fall off significantly towards the top of the scale (which incidentally is capped at a fairly low $128,000). I don't really see how this new data contradicts the generally accepted view (mentioned in the article) that money increases happiness up to a point.

> I don't really see how this new data contradicts the generally accepted view (mentioned in the article) that money increases happiness up to a point.

It doesn't - the title of the article and the interpretation provided with in is almost as misleading. They start off quickly by telling you about the 'Easterlin paradox' - that is what they have specifically found evidence against. i.e. 'more money makes you happier' is backed by evidence.

The fact that more money makes you happier does not mean that any amount of money can make you as happy as you want though...

This is not surprising - its probably common sense.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#39

Post by bryanlarsen »

beering wrote: post #16

This appears on HN coincidentally after the discussion on rating differences between cultures[1], so that different countries may have different views about what a scale of 1-10 means. A 7 in Brazil might not be a 7 in India, for example. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7044833

The graph in the linked article uses separate lines for each country. The position of each line is different but the slope is surprisingly similar.

Re: Money can buy happiness

#40

Post by aidanbrandt »

scottfr wrote: post #34

Abstract of the cited article ( http://www.nber.org/papers/w18992?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_mediu... ): Many scholars have argued that once “basic needs” have been met, higher income is no longer associated with higher in subjective well-being. We assess the validity of this claim in comparisons of both rich and poor countries, and also of rich and poor people within a country. Analyzing multiple datasets, multiple defini…

Full Paper: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/...
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