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Female Founders

paulgraham.com

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Re: Female Founders

#591

Post by newnewnew »

jessedhillon wrote: post #369
hnriot wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's an interesting view, it's also wrong. It might make for a good way of justifying things in your mind, you should really take a look at the more common definitions of racism to understand why this point of view you have in one held by a minority of people.

Hey, you know what? If every black person sees you and thinks "honkey," you will likely experience hurt feelings, and a slight discomfort when in certain neighborhoods. You probably will stop going to those places. It would be very hard to blame lack of progress in your professional or academic career on this perception. You could go almost your whole life without that perception having any tangible manifestation in…

Christopher Lane

Re: Female Founders

#592

Post by [deleted] »

mtrimpe wrote: post #502
coldtea wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Judging by the comments on this article, it would appear that once you've been labeled a sexist it is downright impossible to dispel. That's because it's easy. The "sexism-accusers" don't have to do anything themselves to fight sexism. Anything concrete I mean. It's enough that they voice their anger and point their finger to this or that scapegoat (and ocassional real offender), and they can feel good, nay, champi…

Or maybe they had something happen to them or someone they know? Maybe they had someone's head on their shoulder crying their heart out? Maybe they tried standing up for them and were fired? Maybe for whatever reason they really understand what it feels like in a world where most people don't. I'm one of those rage-queens you so happily deride here. I know it myself. I became one after I complained about a manager op…

[deleted]

Re: Female Founders

#593

Post by [deleted] »

mtrimpe wrote: post #502
coldtea wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Judging by the comments on this article, it would appear that once you've been labeled a sexist it is downright impossible to dispel. That's because it's easy. The "sexism-accusers" don't have to do anything themselves to fight sexism. Anything concrete I mean. It's enough that they voice their anger and point their finger to this or that scapegoat (and ocassional real offender), and they can feel good, nay, champi…

Or maybe they had something happen to them or someone they know? Maybe they had someone's head on their shoulder crying their heart out? Maybe they tried standing up for them and were fired? Maybe for whatever reason they really understand what it feels like in a world where most people don't. I'm one of those rage-queens you so happily deride here. I know it myself. I became one after I complained about a manager op…

[deleted]

Re: Female Founders

#594

Post by [deleted] »

mtrimpe wrote: post #502
coldtea wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Judging by the comments on this article, it would appear that once you've been labeled a sexist it is downright impossible to dispel. That's because it's easy. The "sexism-accusers" don't have to do anything themselves to fight sexism. Anything concrete I mean. It's enough that they voice their anger and point their finger to this or that scapegoat (and ocassional real offender), and they can feel good, nay, champi…

Or maybe they had something happen to them or someone they know? Maybe they had someone's head on their shoulder crying their heart out? Maybe they tried standing up for them and were fired? Maybe for whatever reason they really understand what it feels like in a world where most people don't. I'm one of those rage-queens you so happily deride here. I know it myself. I became one after I complained about a manager op…

[deleted]

Re: Female Founders

#595

Post by coldtea »

mtrimpe wrote: post #502
coldtea wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Judging by the comments on this article, it would appear that once you've been labeled a sexist it is downright impossible to dispel. That's because it's easy. The "sexism-accusers" don't have to do anything themselves to fight sexism. Anything concrete I mean. It's enough that they voice their anger and point their finger to this or that scapegoat (and ocassional real offender), and they can feel good, nay, champi…

Or maybe they had something happen to them or someone they know? Maybe they had someone's head on their shoulder crying their heart out? Maybe they tried standing up for them and were fired? Maybe for whatever reason they really understand what it feels like in a world where most people don't. I'm one of those rage-queens you so happily deride here. I know it myself. I became one after I complained about a manager op…

>Or maybe they had something happen to them or someone they know? Maybe they had someone's head on their shoulder crying their heart out? Maybe they tried standing up for them and were fired? Maybe for whatever reason they really understand what it feels like in a world where most people don't.

>Plenty of those "sexism-accusers" probably have similar stories so, pardon my language, but go fuck yourself for pretending we're all just some spoiled middle class rage warriors.

No, those are different people you describe -- actual humans.

The pg-incident style outrage is not done by this kind of people, but by finger-pointers and "champions for the cause" with ideological blinders.

In my experience, it's mostly the overpriviled that champion such things -- the actual victims and women who try to empower themselves and move things forward pick fights that actually matter.

>I'm one of those rage-queens you so happily deride here. I know it myself. I became one after I complained about a manager openly discriminating against gay employees and having everyone involved in the complaint, except for the manager in question, mysteriously being let go in the three months that followed.*

Which sounds valid, but is quite different, I think you'll agree, to the kind of pg-gate/dongle-gate/upper-middle-class-drama incidents people make a fuss about.

>Plenty of those "sexism-accusers" probably have similar stories so, pardon my language, but go fuck yourself for pretending we're all just some spoiled middle class rage warriors.

I think you just proved my point. So sexual discrimination is bad, but telling people to "fuck themselves" because you disagree with their viewpoint is OK?

How about a manager telling that to a female employee he disagrees with?

Or do you have double standards for the workplace compared to online discussion? Would swearing/harassing at women/gays/etc online be OK to you then?

Re: Female Founders

#596

Post by supersystem »

anatoly wrote: post #524
asksol wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please educate the rest of us what is so upsetting about these tweets (other than the fact that he received death threats)? Jacob is doing a fantastic job at making people of all types feel welcome, which I believe is more likely to make the Django developer community thrive (as it already is). Also, the footnote mentioned where pg writes that he enjoys that startups can freely discriminate is worrying. It…

I remember reading these two tweets: https://twitter.com/jacobian/status/416719991963009024 https://twitter.com/jacobian/status/417776560603549696 and thinking that the second one (in response to some people telling him he was factually wrong about pg, and should maybe cool down) in particular marks him as a toxic passive-aggressive douchebag. Do you think these are fine, too? I didn't know he was head of Django, whi…

"Do you think these are fine, too?"

Seems a lot better than your own name calling.

Re: Female Founders

#597

Post by coldtea »

wpietri wrote: post #510
coldtea wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually MLK acted perfectly (if a little too quiet at times, though he was portrayed much more obedient that how dynamic he was). The problem is with priviliged upper middle class white PC police, that are nothing like MLK -- and their "rage" is all show off and conforming to the social norms of their peer group.

>Actually MLK acted perfectly Q: How many times was Dr. King arrested? A: He was arrested 30 times. (From http://www.thekingcenter.org/faqs ) Or go read Letter From a Birmingham Jail: http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.h... It was a letter rooted in anger: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/16/us/king-birmingham-jail-letter... In it, he writes: "Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis a…

>>Actually MLK acted perfectly Q: How many times was Dr. King arrested? A: He was arrested 30 times.

Perfectly as in "perfectly good in my books", not perfectly legal or Mother Teresa like.

In fact in my very next sentense I lament that they present him as much more timid for how dynamic he was.

Re: Female Founders

#598

Post by supersystem »

crassus wrote: post #532
mikeleeorg wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you're being downvoted. It's a fair question. I plan on exposing her to as many topics as I can. I'll support whatever path she takes. My job, as I see it, is partly to give her a taste of as many topics as possible, then to help guide her as her interests begin to emerge.

Thanks. I find it odd that supposedly pro-female movements denigrate all the things that women have participated in over the years. Women have always been with us, and they haven't been sitting around all day doing nothing! But we tell young girls nowadays that to be valuable, they have to do things that boys are doing. A true pro-female movement would first of all recognize the value of all the work of women over th…

It's not that being a stay-at-home mom isn't valuable it's that you're giving up your independence. For most of history women of course didn't have much of a choice, even if they were educated.

Re: Female Founders

#599

Post by supersystem »

reinhardt wrote: post #522
asksol wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please educate the rest of us what is so upsetting about these tweets (other than the fact that he received death threats)? Jacob is doing a fantastic job at making people of all types feel welcome, which I believe is more likely to make the Django developer community thrive (as it already is). Also, the footnote mentioned where pg writes that he enjoys that startups can freely discriminate is worrying. It…

> making people of all types feel welcome except for (preferably white) men, apparently: "ah right, yes, I forgot about the poor oppressed men. I keep doing that, why can’t I ever remember?" Death threats from random anonymous people on the internet don't mean much more than that you have really pissed someone off. They're not to be taken literally. Re pg's footnote: The discrimination example he brings up is based o…

The major hurdle for fighting for men's rights are people like yourself that keep lowering the debate by not being able to conduct themselves in a decent way. Frankly, the attitudes behind why women doesn't have a place in technology or used to be barred from many sports, are the same as why men can be forced into military service or has a higher risk of injury at work.

Re: Female Founders

#600

Post by aaren »

jacobtracey wrote: post #587
wpietri wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have a lot of opinions on the right way to do this. What experience do you have that would encourage others to give weight to your opinions? Perhaps you can share a couple of your notable successes and a couple of instructive failures. Having talked with a lot of people you consider "disadvantaged" about this, they mostly disagree with you. As do plenty of other people. I personally find the framing of pr…

My experience is that of a white male. Does that make my opinions or viewpoint any less valid in your eyes? I've expressed one opinion on 'the right way to do this'. Help the disadvantaged - and don't vilify those with perceived advantages that they have no control over. I could ask the exact same thing of your background and why you feel that your opinion is more valid than mine, but instead I'd prefer to address th…

Your opinions are less valid when they make assumptions about the lived experience of other people. This is what the concept of 'privilege' is useful for - removing the unconscious bias that is loaded into your view of how other people experience the world.

When you make statements about how other people should act in a certain situation, it is useful to consider your cultural biases. This is what privilege checklists are useful for.

If you receive a strong 'check your privilege!' response to something you say, it just means that what you are saying doesn't seem to take into consideration what it is like to be the other person.

If you feel that you have taken this into consideration, then you can say so! Or you can ask for help in unfolding your biases. Just be aware that there might be a conversation going on that you are interrupting and that those involved might not have time to help you.

Privilege isn't about vilification, it is about trying to understand the experiences of other people.

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