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Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

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Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#91

Post by mathattack »

owenjones wrote: post #28
potatolicious wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the gist of what you're trying to say, but: > "If I wanted to drive my coffeshop or cheeseburger stand out of business I would try to scare Googlers and Facebookers out of town." Yes, you really would. One of the chief problems with gentrification (where "problem" is highly subjective) is that the incoming population sometimes doesn't want the businesses you already have. Your local cup-o-joe place is go…

Anecdotal story time: I lived in a rough neighborhood in Philly probably at the beginning of the first wave of gentrification in that area. Our house was a recent rehab, there were several houses next door that were completely vacant. We would frequent a terrible, dirty, cheap hoagie (or sub for you non-Philadelphians) shop owned by an immigrant family. I was always worried that they would get displaced by the incomi…

Wealthier patrons are good for business. Most are happy up selling.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#93

Post by waps »

owenjones wrote: post #57
callahad wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2011, a $100,000 salary gave you a higher individual income than 93.4% of all working-age Americans. It seems strange to describe an individual income in the top 6% as "relatively modest." Cite: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01...

Regardless the point I was trying to make is that if the author wishes to rail against inequality, they picked a poor target in their new neighbors. By relatively modest, I was referring to the salaries earned by people in actual places of power. If the author wanted to bring up the extreme disparity between the really-wealthy and the rest of us, I am all ears, instead they've focused on the harm done to them by the…

Googlers, by far more left than most of the country, cannot fathom that they are part of "the rich" most of them rail against. Some of these people are getting kicked out of their apartment, can't find a new place that's anywhere near their job, so they're getting kicked out, forced to move away, forced to quit their job and sent packing to nowhere with no job, no roof over their heads and no money. Plenty of these will be homeless for a while to come.

My opinion is : stop fighting this discussion. You can't win. There are no words anywhere that will make people accept being forced into homelessness without fighting. Just shut up, go to church sunday and pay a few hundred bucks on collection, because that will actually help them for a while. Lots of churches help people relocate because they've got lots of locations, and this is (part of) what they do.

TLDR: These protesters are right. Google, or googlers, techies in general, are forcing the lower rungs on the social ladder into homelessness.

Sorry to say, but you're lucky you're in America. In Europe, I cannot imagine these protests would have remained peaceful. A few tires and one window does not count as violence. Visit the poor parts of Brussels once with what a techie normally walks around with in San Francisco and you'll know what violence is.

Of course the reason this doesn't happen in Sanfran is that this is just the n-th time the poorest are being forced out.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#94

Post by sliverstorm »

waps wrote: post #88
sliverstorm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abolishing rent control might be the big-picture answer, but in the micro- scheme, the protestors will never rally for that. They really don't have a winning play that I can think of; the spat is basically just them lashing out at the only thing they can think to lash out at. They are in the unenviable position of living at low cost in low density housing in a locality that is shooting up in value, and all they can d…

Or they can get elected and introduce more rent control.

More rent control doesn't help them. Rent control for everybody means the wealthy pay less on rent too. Rent control for only the poor doesn't work, and Section 8 is too unpopular for them to roll out a widespread program like that for everybody who doesn't work for Google.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#95

Post by sliverstorm »

samstave wrote: post #77
sliverstorm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, you're right on Docs, but they don't make Chromebooks. Not missing the point, just thinking the point is not very strong.

They do make their own custom server hardware... and build entire buildings around them to the tune of billions of dollars.

1) They don't build it themselves; to my knowledge they custom order.

2) Nobody printed that paper using a custom Google server.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#96

Post by ameister14 »

sophacles wrote: post #87
ameister14 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who owns the apartments? Talk to them. If they're not members of your community, work with your city council to pass ordinances making that arrangement more difficult. Why would the rent be higher if the people that own the apartments didn't raise it? They have a choice in this; they can live the way they did two years ago.

These things are shown time and again to not work for many reasons: * landlords just want the rent, and any "scum" (by which I mean employed and decent tenants that don't pay as much) need to get packing. * city councils want the higher taxes. Good citizens just don't count unless they pay more. * the police get in on the act and start hassling people who don't look like they belong (aka not in the new, higher class)…

You imply that all of these people are not members of your same community. They are.

As a result, they can be reasoned with. The politicians are not elected by money alone, but by votes. Convince them that the votes they need will be lacking and they will go your way. The landlords live amongst you; if they don't, again, force the city to pass an ordinance against outsiders owning a disproportionate amount of property.

The police also live amongst you; take action by befriending them. It's much more effective than assuming they are an enemy.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#97

Post by samstave »

sliverstorm wrote: post #95
samstave wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do make their own custom server hardware... and build entire buildings around them to the tune of billions of dollars.

1) They don't build it themselves; to my knowledge they custom order. 2) Nobody printed that paper using a custom Google server.

They (used to, at least) physically design the actual server-boards used in their DCs - the same way that FB started to copy them on.

While they may have the actual physical manufacture contracted to a fab - they certainly were "building" their own google-specific designs.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#98

Post by [deleted] »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #84
yapcguy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google could open an office in Oakland given that there are enough employees there to merit arranging free transport by bus. Googlers could live closer to work. Why would you want to sit on a bus for two hours everyday when you could live in Mountainview and cycle to work? Or Google could buy up houses and apartments and turn them into corporate housing for their workers.

Why would it make sense for Google to open an office in Oakland given it's current huge campus in Mountain View?

[deleted]

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#99

Post by mindcrime »

These people aren't doing much to generate sympathy for their cause with poorly informed rants like this. So the people who work for Google are to blame? And not the politicians who legislate policies that inhibit the construction of additional housing, thereby exacerbating the affordability problem? Or maybe these folks want something that they aren't entitled to: a world where everything is, and remains, exactly the way they want it - and where the normal economic supply/demand mechanism doesn't apply.

Either way, if these protesters care about generating more interest in helping them, I think they should consider a different tack.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#100

Post by eli_gottlieb »

yapcguy wrote: post #73
adamnemecek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I (to some extent) agree. What should Google and more importantly Google employees living in Oakland do?

Google could open an office in Oakland given that there are enough employees there to merit arranging free transport by bus. Googlers could live closer to work. Why would you want to sit on a bus for two hours everyday when you could live in Mountainview and cycle to work? Or Google could buy up houses and apartments and turn them into corporate housing for their workers.

Google even tried proposing to build more housing in Mountain View. The town council shot them down.
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