Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

blogs.kqed.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 103 posts

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#81

Post by brownbat »

I know economists talk about people choosing places to live in terms of "amenities," and businesses want to headquarter where people want to live. At what point is it cheaper to import amenities to, I dunno, Wyoming than to keep fighting the rising costs and politics of the metropolis?

I guess the answer is basically never? I wonder how much it would cost to keep the museums and clubs running with a lower population, just a whole planned city of entertainment...

(Maybe because businesses also benefit from sharing a tradeable talent pool with other similar businesses...)

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#82

Post by wonderzombie »

callahad wrote: post #44
owenjones wrote: post #16

Yes, that developer earning a relatively modest, yet maybe comparatively high, six figure salary is the root of all that is wrong in the world. Also I assume the author is implying their gentrification of Oakland is cool and acceptable but Google employees gentrification is so not. This vitriol really needs some perspective, although I'm pretty convinced this has to be a troll.

In 2011, a $100,000 salary gave you a higher individual income than 93.4% of all working-age Americans. It seems strange to describe an individual income in the top 6% as "relatively modest." Cite: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01...

I'm 100% sympathetic -- $100K is a lot of money -- but you really do need to factor in cost of living. I am not trying to evoke sympathy for folks who make $100K. It's just reality that $100K means something drastically different in the Bay Area vs any number of other metropolitan areas.

It's just more complicated than absolute numbers, is all I'm saying. If anything the fact that $100K is "not much" relative to the cost of living there is yet another symptom-- it implies that an eminently reasonable amount of money like $60K isn't enough. IOW, we should talk about floors, not ceilings or even averages.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#83

Post by dkuntz2 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #54
nawitus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of "makers of things" don't really make their things, they just sell their brand.

Either way, is an HP Chromebook something Google has "produced"?

Google most likely collaborated with HP to create it. Provided they did (because they might not have) I would argue they helped produce it.

Discarding the HP Chromebook, the Moto X and Moto G are arguably Google produced, as are the entire Nexus line of phones.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#84

Post by dkuntz2 »

yapcguy wrote: post #73
adamnemecek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I (to some extent) agree. What should Google and more importantly Google employees living in Oakland do?

Google could open an office in Oakland given that there are enough employees there to merit arranging free transport by bus. Googlers could live closer to work. Why would you want to sit on a bus for two hours everyday when you could live in Mountainview and cycle to work? Or Google could buy up houses and apartments and turn them into corporate housing for their workers.

Why would it make sense for Google to open an office in Oakland given it's current huge campus in Mountain View?

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#85

Post by sophacles »

walls wrote: post #80
sophacles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of people (you aren't one of them, by your statements, that doesn't mean you represent the majority, or even that there isn't a significant minority!) renting makes as much sense, or more, as owning. Further, in my neighborhood, the prices have been relatively stable (roughly tracking inflation) for a long time. It isn't trendy place. Whatever. Whatever the case is - there are a lot of long-term renters. Pe…

You just spent a paragraph explaining how it was within your control, but because of some nonsense reasoning, you chose to do it anyway. It's a very simple concept. If you are renting, you have relinquished any guarantee of stability.

No - I made choices based on the best I could. However other people can make choices that undo my best efforts, and that would piss me off. It seems you think that somehow I am the centralized control for everything, which is awesome but unfortunately un-true.

Even if I could minimize the impact of people coming in and disrupting the community, say causing them to put in a bunch of high cost living stuff a few blocks away, it still drastically affects all sorts of other factors. Property values go up anyway - taxes go up. Prices of things go up locally. Net impact - same shit.

I'm not saying that it should stop. You seem to think I'm against progress. I'm not - I'm just for sensible community preservation as well.

It's an even simpler concept: it isn't progress if it fucks up a bunch of people's lives for no good reason.

What do you have against letting people be happy with their lives - seriously it may take a little more effort to respect people, but it still seems decent to do so.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#86

Post by bunderbunder »

wonderzombie wrote: post #82
callahad wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2011, a $100,000 salary gave you a higher individual income than 93.4% of all working-age Americans. It seems strange to describe an individual income in the top 6% as "relatively modest." Cite: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01...

I'm 100% sympathetic -- $100K is a lot of money -- but you really do need to factor in cost of living. I am not trying to evoke sympathy for folks who make $100K. It's just reality that $100K means something drastically different in the Bay Area vs any number of other metropolitan areas. It's just more complicated than absolute numbers, is all I'm saying. If anything the fact that $100K is "not much" relative to the…

Keep some perspective in considering the cost of living, too. The area's high cost of living is merely an inconvenience for someone who's that lofty income bracket. For the people living on the community's median household income of about half that, I imagine it's a lot rougher. For the >10% of the community's unemployed people, it's probably downright disastrous. And I imagine from the perspective of those folks, when the $100k earners complain about the cost of living it looks a whole lot like crocodile tears.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#87

Post by sophacles »

ameister14 wrote: post #67
sophacles wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a beautifully off point solution! Should my community start getting disrupted by higher rent, (half my neighborhood is long-term tenants, there is not rent control here, or anything like that), I will surely tell the people who don't own the apartments they rent to not sell!

Who owns the apartments? Talk to them. If they're not members of your community, work with your city council to pass ordinances making that arrangement more difficult. Why would the rent be higher if the people that own the apartments didn't raise it? They have a choice in this; they can live the way they did two years ago.

These things are shown time and again to not work for many reasons:

* landlords just want the rent, and any "scum" (by which I mean employed and decent tenants that don't pay as much) need to get packing.

* city councils want the higher taxes. Good citizens just don't count unless they pay more.

* the police get in on the act and start hassling people who don't look like they belong (aka not in the new, higher class)

* cost of living goes up even if half the old population stays there. new businesses are forced in by crazy eminent domain tricks.

It's the same old gentrification story: some new folks with more money want it, so they take it without regarding that they are displacing a whole bunch of good people (along with some bad ones) who are now force to rebuild their lives.

I'm not against progress, I'm against "progress" that disrupts people who did nothing wrong for reasons that are basically needless.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#88

Post by waps »

sliverstorm wrote: post #26
dkl wrote: post #24

This is the wrong fight. Protester vs. Googler is a distraction. There are other, root causes of the problem that make the protesters angry, and doing this might relieve some frustration for them, but it does no good, and arguably does harm to their cause and gets us no closer to real solutions. Back in the 70's, Berkeley, a close neighbor, decided that rent control was the answer. It turns out that it helped, but it…

Abolishing rent control might be the big-picture answer, but in the micro- scheme, the protestors will never rally for that. They really don't have a winning play that I can think of; the spat is basically just them lashing out at the only thing they can think to lash out at. They are in the unenviable position of living at low cost in low density housing in a locality that is shooting up in value, and all they can d…

Or they can get elected and introduce more rent control.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#89

Post by waps »

davevil wrote: post #11

My favourite part is line "But look around, see the violence and degradation out there? This is the world that you have created, and you are clearly on the wrong side." Umm...Really? If one side is full of violence and degradation, and the other side has catered lunches and free massages, I'm going to choose the catered lunch side 10 times out of 10.

Did you miss the point about getting kicked out and getting forced to leave with nowhere to go ?

That "might" be the violence and degradation they're talking about.

Just saying.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#90

Post by StavrosK »

adamnemecek wrote: post #13
StavrosK wrote: post #10

Can someone enlighten me as to what a Google bus is? Googling it doesn't shed any light...

It's a bus shuttle service for Google employees which takes them to work. It has become some sort of symbol of the socio-economic divide between tech employees and the rest of society in the Bay area.

It makes sense now, thank you.
Post reply on HN