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Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

marco.org

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Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#31

Post by smokermario »

danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

I read an academic paper a while back where the authors claimed that Chinese search engines use target="blank" so all search result links open in new windows, and that's the normal state of affairs. Does anyone know if that's true?

Update: found the paper - http://jeffhuang.com/Final_Branching_WSDM12.pdf

Here's the quote:

Users in the Chinese market nearly always branch [what the authors call opening links in new windows], a behavior forced by their search engines' default settings. Some people speculate [footnote for http://www.quora.com/China/Why-do-most-hyperlinks- on-Chinese-websites-open-a-new-window-tab] that this default started because Internet access is slower in China and so branching enables Web pages to load in the background. Others believe default branching is economically motivated as it allows a search engine to keep users on its site longer. However, a qualitative study of how Chinese users perceive branching versus backtracking would be interesting since their default action is opposite of that for the American and European users, who have been previously studied.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#32

Post by pyre »

SDGT wrote: post #20
danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

Anecdotal evidence to combat anecdotal evidence, but where do we stop and let the user make some damn decisions? Are users really too stupid to know ctrl+click, middle click, or right click->open in new tab? Personally I side with the author, as I open just about everything with middle click, but I also have a lot of dumb users that rely on target _blank like it's the only thing preventing them from spiraling into a…

> Are users really too stupid to know ctrl+click, middle click, or right click->open in new tab?

There are people that use their computer day-in and day-out that don't know about alt-tab to switch between windows... The computer doesn't come with a manual, and no one ever showed them. Not everyone that gets plopped in front of a computer explores their new environment once they have a workflow down.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#33

Post by gpvos »

danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

The main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that if a site has standard links and I want to open a page in a new tab, I can do that. But if a site opens pages in a new tab, I cannot suppress that. (Yeah, there's probably an extension for that, but that's not the point.) You are taking away choice.

It would be nice if browsers would indicate whether a link opened a new tab or not. That would also make me less hesitant to open a link to a help or documentation page while I'm in the middle of a transaction, as TFA mentions.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#34

Post by gumby »

subpixel wrote: post #26

Far worse, in my opinion, are sites that disable command/control-click (open link in new tab), either on purpose or b/c of lousy javascript. I probably command-click 99% of links. How often do I, as a user, want to leave the current page and enter an entirely new context, within the same browser tab? Almost never.

I agree -- why would someone disable this? Luckily so few people do this that I simply don't visit those sites (looking at you, fandango!)

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#35

Post by gumby »

Aardwolf wrote: post #3

IMHO, there should always have existed only one single type of link: a link. The user should be able to choose to open it in this window, a new tab, or a new window. Browser allow you to open a normal link in new tab or new window, but unfortunately I don't know any web browser that allows the user to force opening a link in the current tab :(

run a rewrite proxy (e.g. Glimmerblocker on MacOS or on your network) and you can get rid of crud like this, those annoying floating bars etc etc.

It seems a million bad web "designers" don't realize that the page is for the reader's benefit (else they'll stop coming).

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#36

Post by zellyn »

danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

Then I would expect that you of all people would want to make the change at the browser level, not on a site-by-site basis.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#37

Post by gjm11 »

natural219 wrote: post #23

I'm confused. He says: Forcing links to open in new windows has two main purposes: 1) To avoid disturbing an important session in progress for a temporary digression, such as FAQ/documentation links in the sidebar when you’re doing online banking. And then: I believe the former is justifiable He gives a good reason for using target="_blank", and then...okay, what? Sounds like a good reason. Even then, his second reas…

> and then...okay, what? Sounds like a good reason.

But one that doesn't (in his opinion, explicitly stated shortly after -- and also, for what it's worth, in mine) apply to the particular behaviour he was criticizing.

> But you've clearly identified a positive ROI technique for keeping people on your site.

But also one that (in his opinion, and for what it's worth also mine) is likely to annoy and/or confuse users, which means two things.

1. If you happen to care about users' welfare as well as about your "positive ROI" -- in other words, if you see them as people rather than as tools to be manipulated in a way that brings you the most benefit -- then their annoyance and/or confusion is a reason not to use the technique. (It might be outweighed by that "positive ROI", but it's a reason.)

2. Even if you do see your users only as tools for increasing your profits or mindshare or whatever, annoying and/or confusing them may have bad long-term consequences. They may stay on your site longer right now, as you intend -- but they may also be that bit more likely to abandon you for some other site that doesn't annoy or confuse them so much. So by using this technique you might be taking short-term gains at long-term cost.

(It seems to me that while #2 is a bit subtle and might well be too weak an effect to matter much, #1 is really obvious. I am confused at your professed confusion.)

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#38

Post by billforsternz »

natural219 wrote: post #23

I'm confused. He says: Forcing links to open in new windows has two main purposes: 1) To avoid disturbing an important session in progress for a temporary digression, such as FAQ/documentation links in the sidebar when you’re doing online banking. And then: I believe the former is justifiable He gives a good reason for using target="_blank", and then...okay, what? Sounds like a good reason. Even then, his second reas…

He is saying that using a disruptive technique is good for users if it helps them avoid an incomplete online banking transaction. However using the same disruptive technique only because you desperately want the user to come back and finish reading your blog post is not such a good idea.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#39

Post by bane »

danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

In my mind I've mapped clicking my mousewheel with "opening links", which in Windows opens in a new tab. I do this at least 75% of the time when I click a link. But I also like having the option to just normal left mouse click and open in the same tab as sometimes that's the best thing to do.

I hate it when either of these are overridden.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#40

Post by bane »

SDGT wrote: post #28
tannerc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you commonly refer to your users/visitors as "dumb" then your problem isn't with links. Alas, it's worth considering personal bias. Simply because you understand the fundamentals of the web and how to use modern technology doesn't mean it's the norm or standard (yet). Because someone doesn't know how to "middle click" does not make them stupid.

My qualms are with the lack of motivation to learn. I get the daily urge to look up some shortcut or random tidbit of information I didn't know about any subject, so I get rather upset when coworkers continue on their day doing the bare minimum. It takes a total of maybe 15 seconds to learn how to open a link in a tab. If that's too much effort for someone, then I seriously question what other small things that perso…

Maybe the next thing you should take an interest in learning about is how normal non-tech folk use computers.
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