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Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

marco.org

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Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#21

Post by dasil003 »

danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

I have more important things to do than to attempt to put together statistical proof of this to empiricism-fetishists, but I can see in 15 years of web development that I've seen this (including in a proper usability lab with one way glass and eye-tracking, bla bla bla) create serious confusion with users vainly attempting to click back and not understanding why it doesn't work. That is for the average non-tech user. For sophisticated users (which is probably approaching a majority of the American population under 40 these days) it just makes them angry when the behavior of regular pages is hijacked to be non-standard and disrupts their chosen workflow.

Are you seriously arguing that in your opinion every single link should open a new tab automatically?

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#22

Post by elwell »

SDGT wrote: post #20
danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

Anecdotal evidence to combat anecdotal evidence, but where do we stop and let the user make some damn decisions? Are users really too stupid to know ctrl+click, middle click, or right click->open in new tab? Personally I side with the author, as I open just about everything with middle click, but I also have a lot of dumb users that rely on target _blank like it's the only thing preventing them from spiraling into a…

> Are users really too stupid[...]

Yes

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#23

Post by natural219 »

I'm confused. He says:

Forcing links to open in new windows has two main purposes:

1) To avoid disturbing an important session in progress for a temporary digression, such as FAQ/documentation links in the sidebar when you’re doing online banking.

And then:

I believe the former is justifiable

He gives a good reason for using target="_blank", and then...okay, what? Sounds like a good reason.

Even then, his second reason to not use target=_blank clearly sounds like a normative difference than a technical difference. He doesn't "like" the idea of keeping people on your site...so what? Don't use it, then. But you've clearly identified a positive ROI technique for keeping people on your site.

This post really confuses me.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#24

Post by tannerc »

SDGT wrote: post #20
danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

Anecdotal evidence to combat anecdotal evidence, but where do we stop and let the user make some damn decisions? Are users really too stupid to know ctrl+click, middle click, or right click->open in new tab? Personally I side with the author, as I open just about everything with middle click, but I also have a lot of dumb users that rely on target _blank like it's the only thing preventing them from spiraling into a…

If you commonly refer to your users/visitors as "dumb" then your problem isn't with links.

Alas, it's worth considering personal bias. Simply because you understand the fundamentals of the web and how to use modern technology doesn't mean it's the norm or standard (yet). Because someone doesn't know how to "middle click" does not make them stupid.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#25

Post by Steko »

danielpal wrote: post #10

I completely disagree. In fact I find it worse when a link opens in the same tab and then I have to navigate back and find the place that I was at .vs. having to close a new tab I did not want. "And I think over a decade of user confusion and frustration resulting from target="_blank" backs that up." Do you have any links to to back this claim?

Who needs links when common sense suffices. On 99% of websites links do X, on the Verge and some others they do Y.

It may be the case that a world where 99% of websites doing Y is slightly better than the one where 99% of websites do X. However, both of those worlds are preferable to the world where 50% of the websites do X and 50% do Y. If you live in browser doesn't handle links the way you prefer there's a way to change that for yourself.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#26

Post by subpixel »

Far worse, in my opinion, are sites that disable command/control-click (open link in new tab), either on purpose or b/c of lousy javascript.

I probably command-click 99% of links. How often do I, as a user, want to leave the current page and enter an entirely new context, within the same browser tab? Almost never.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#28

Post by SDGT »

tannerc wrote: post #24
SDGT wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal evidence to combat anecdotal evidence, but where do we stop and let the user make some damn decisions? Are users really too stupid to know ctrl+click, middle click, or right click->open in new tab? Personally I side with the author, as I open just about everything with middle click, but I also have a lot of dumb users that rely on target _blank like it's the only thing preventing them from spiraling into a…

If you commonly refer to your users/visitors as "dumb" then your problem isn't with links. Alas, it's worth considering personal bias. Simply because you understand the fundamentals of the web and how to use modern technology doesn't mean it's the norm or standard (yet). Because someone doesn't know how to "middle click" does not make them stupid.

My qualms are with the lack of motivation to learn. I get the daily urge to look up some shortcut or random tidbit of information I didn't know about any subject, so I get rather upset when coworkers continue on their day doing the bare minimum.

It takes a total of maybe 15 seconds to learn how to open a link in a tab. If that's too much effort for someone, then I seriously question what other small things that person has decided to just not learn throughout their life.

edit: I should note that by "users" I mean fully grown adults working with a web browser every day as their job, not Grandma.

Re: Forcing links to open in new windows: an argument that should have ended

#30

Post by elpool2 »

dictum wrote: post #2

Tapping and holding for 2 seconds and then choosing "Open in a new tab" every time you want to open a link in a new tab in iOS gets tiring fast. I wish Apple would introduce a better UI for this.

Yeah I wish there was a better way too. I have like 50 pages accidentally added to my reading list because "Add to reading list" is right next to "open in new tab" in that menu.
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