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Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

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Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#51

Post by eli_gottlieb »

sliverstorm wrote: post #9
jamesaguilar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't you hear? Oakland was the most peaceful city in the country before about 2004 when Googlers started dispersing that far.

Seriously, it's all the Googler-on-Googler gang violence that has been skewing Oakland's crime statistics.

Dude, this is not a joke. There were massive numbers of casualties in the Nerf war of Summer 2013 between the Dragon Army and Sunshine Regiment.

HAIL GENERAL GRANGER!

And then there was the Nerf zombie apocalypse in spring!

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#52

Post by sliverstorm »

ameister14 wrote: post #42
sliverstorm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not dominance contests, the point is people want to keep their low density housing even as housing costs rise in their city. Imagine if you lived in Hawaii, and the island was just starting to become popular because it is so nice. Everyone was moving there, and rents were going through the roof because there is nowhere to expand. What you want isn't Manhattan sky-rises on your little island; you want che…

Hawaii is an interesting example. You should check out this supreme court case: (HHA v. Midkiff) http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/467/229 Basically, a few people owned a majority of the homes on Hawaii, and there was a supreme court case about the right of the state to seize and redistribute them.

I'm not sure I can see strong ties between that case and this issue, but it is an interesting case! Thank you for the link :)

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#53

Post by WalterSear »

sliverstorm wrote: post #14
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #8

Gosh, wouldn't the world be such a nicer place if society solved its housing problems by building more housing with a higher density instead of having these pointless zero-sum dominance contests? But of course, that would defeat the whole purpose. The point is not to build more housing, it's to have a zero-sum dominance contest and come out on top!

The point is not dominance contests, the point is people want to keep their low density housing even as housing costs rise in their city. Imagine if you lived in Hawaii, and the island was just starting to become popular because it is so nice. Everyone was moving there, and rents were going through the roof because there is nowhere to expand. What you want isn't Manhattan sky-rises on your little island; you want che…

Except Oakland really sucked before the late 90s/early 2000s gentrification happened.

In other words, they don't want pre-discovery Hawaii back - they want post-discovery Hawaii back and for all these latecomers with more money than them to fuck off.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#54

Post by sliverstorm »

nawitus wrote: post #41
sliverstorm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, you're right on Docs, but they don't make Chromebooks. Not missing the point, just thinking the point is not very strong.

A lot of "makers of things" don't really make their things, they just sell their brand.

Either way, is an HP Chromebook something Google has "produced"?

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#55

Post by sliverstorm »

WalterSear wrote: post #53
sliverstorm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not dominance contests, the point is people want to keep their low density housing even as housing costs rise in their city. Imagine if you lived in Hawaii, and the island was just starting to become popular because it is so nice. Everyone was moving there, and rents were going through the roof because there is nowhere to expand. What you want isn't Manhattan sky-rises on your little island; you want che…

Except Oakland really sucked before the late 90s/early 2000s gentrification happened. In other words, they don't want pre-discovery Hawaii back - they want post-discovery Hawaii back and for all these latecomers with more money than them to fuck off.

Right, Hawaii is not a perfect parallel, but rather how I expect things look like through their eyes. Their perception is their reality.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#56

Post by WalterSear »

27182818284 wrote: post #48
sliverstorm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not dominance contests, the point is people want to keep their low density housing even as housing costs rise in their city. Imagine if you lived in Hawaii, and the island was just starting to become popular because it is so nice. Everyone was moving there, and rents were going through the roof because there is nowhere to expand. What you want isn't Manhattan sky-rises on your little island; you want che…

>The point is not dominance contests, the point is people want to keep their low density housing even as housing costs rise in their city. I was told by an SF native that the problem was also one of wanting to keep older housing rather—some historic styling reasons. Does anyone know more about that aspect? I mean every city / town has historically designated homes, is there a more aggressive form of general legislati…

FWIW, the unhip parts of San Francisco have had relatively stable rent and housing costs. It's just the 'cool' parts that took off, and then the 'cool' parts of Oakland.

The last time I looked, it was only slightly pricier where I live in SF, compared to even 10 years ago, when I moved here.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#57

Post by owenjones »

callahad wrote: post #44
owenjones wrote: post #16

Yes, that developer earning a relatively modest, yet maybe comparatively high, six figure salary is the root of all that is wrong in the world. Also I assume the author is implying their gentrification of Oakland is cool and acceptable but Google employees gentrification is so not. This vitriol really needs some perspective, although I'm pretty convinced this has to be a troll.

In 2011, a $100,000 salary gave you a higher individual income than 93.4% of all working-age Americans. It seems strange to describe an individual income in the top 6% as "relatively modest." Cite: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01...

Regardless the point I was trying to make is that if the author wishes to rail against inequality, they picked a poor target in their new neighbors.

By relatively modest, I was referring to the salaries earned by people in actual places of power.

If the author wanted to bring up the extreme disparity between the really-wealthy and the rest of us, I am all ears, instead they've focused on the harm done to them by the new gentrify-ing population; yet I assume at one point the author was a gentrifier of the same neighborhood they now wish to protect.

People were upset when the hippies moved in to SF too.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#58

Post by sophacles »

jchung wrote: post #50
sophacles wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because there are some people in greater need, these people deserve to have their communities disrupted?

Sorry? I'm not sure what you mean.

Your post reads like "ignore the protests and keep donating. The worst off people who need lots of help need you around, they make the points of the protesters irrelevant."

My point is that the people protesting, are protesting because their community is being disrupted - apparently an irrelevant concern because there are people who are even worse of. That is a fallacy of course - just because someone has it worse than me, doesn't mean I shouldn't fix problems in my spot, nor should I accept a worsening of my position because of it.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#59

Post by ameister14 »

sophacles wrote: post #47
adamnemecek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nothing else, they are implying that they are entitled to living there indefinitely.

Um, that is exactly the same claim the counter arguments are making: "we're entitled to move in wherever we want" I know I'd be pissed if my community - not the place I happen to live, but the actively built relationships I have with people in my neighborhood (years of freindship, acquaintance, understanding and so on) - were disrupted because a bunch of new people showed up and forced that community to be scattered…

You can protect your community. If you have something valuable, people are going to want to purchase it. Decline their offer.

If you don't actually own the thing, but the person that does is a member of your community, persuade them not to sell.

What you don't do is break the valuable thing hoping the would-be buyers go away, or blame them for wanting the thing you value.

Re: Google Bus Protesters’ Manifesto: ‘Get Out of Oakland’

#60

Post by adamnemecek »

sophacles wrote: post #47
adamnemecek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nothing else, they are implying that they are entitled to living there indefinitely.

Um, that is exactly the same claim the counter arguments are making: "we're entitled to move in wherever we want" I know I'd be pissed if my community - not the place I happen to live, but the actively built relationships I have with people in my neighborhood (years of freindship, acquaintance, understanding and so on) - were disrupted because a bunch of new people showed up and forced that community to be scattered…

For the sake of argument, let's say that I (to some extent) agree. What should Google and more importantly Google employees living in Oakland do?
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