The Day We Fight Back • Hacker News Board

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#61

Post by donotsurveil » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:16 PM UTC

Calling upon what a dead person would have done if not dead is something I have a hard time getting behind. But using facebook, google + and twitter to fight back against surveillance made it clear that this whole initiative is a joke and a bad poorly executed one.

I wish those guys luck in trying to push against government surveillance towards private for profit transnational corporations' surveillance, but there is no way I would support this kind of initiative.

Either you fight against surveillance or you don't, but fighting some form of surveillance and promoting another is not fight against surveillance.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#62

Post by whatevsbro » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:17 PM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #22

as a non-US citizen this won't change anything for me. "free society" here should be really re-worded to "free US society". as long as there is a intelligence apparatus in the US at all, spying on the rest of the world will continue. by definition. the NSA is monitoring all internet traffic as it would be really hard to know beforehand if it only pertains to US citizens. not sure what exactly you're trying to achieve…

Oh don't worry, they'll keep spying on Americans exactly like before.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#63

Post by j_baker » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:17 PM UTC

nhangen wrote: post #20

Am I the only one bothered by how many people are invoking Aaron's ghost? The intent might be pure, but it really bugs me when people speak for the dead. And let's not forget, Aaron didn't pass away, he committed suicide. Case related stressors may have caused this, but it's also not right to make him the poster child for every anti-government/anti NSA campaign on the Internet.

Meh. I see where you're coming from on this, but we as a society do this kind of thing all the time. Do you think Martin Luther King Jr would have approved of every anti-racism campaign that's used his name? Do you think he would have approved of having his birthday used to celebrate anti-racism? Who knows? Either way, as long as his image is being used to do something good, it's kind of a moot point. My issue with this is that his image isn't being used to do something good. It's being used as a means of getting people to post messages so they can feel like they're doing something good rather than actually doing something good.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#64

Post by steauengeglase » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:18 PM UTC

niuzeta wrote: post #13

No, it's not fighting back. Making clever memes online to earn a chuckle or two might help spreading awareness , but in reality changing an online avatar and posting memes online won't affect much in real life. What I find strange is that(Please correct me on this one) there just doesn't seem to be a political group of technologist who lobby(the original meaning) against politicians. In truth, technology-related poli…

Awareness is good for stopping bad things that are coming down the pipe, but it pretty worthless for getting rid of bad things that are already in place.

To change the entrenched you need big industry players behind you and a willingness as a customer to lose something in the exchange for their new benefit.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#65

Post by l33tbro » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:18 PM UTC

carlosdp wrote: post #42

You lost me at "(and [spying on] everyone else too)". Spying on other countries is what the NSA is built to do, and it's for good reason. Every country does it, that's how geopolitics work. The issue people have here is spying on US Citizens, which is not what they're supposed to be doing.

Poppycock. Give me some "good reasons" why spying on the private lives of citizens of ally countries is not an act of terrorism?

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#66

Post by donotsurveil » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:20 PM UTC

ironchief wrote: post #7

What are the specific goals and modes of action for this protest? (e.g. laws to pass, laws to vote against, people to fire etc.)

Apparently it's post a banner on a website, register on facebook, google+ and twitter to post there that you are against surveillance.

A nice attempt at sorting out people through self-selection who are to be put on a special surveillance list.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#67

Post by whatevsbro » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:21 PM UTC

mcb3k wrote: post #41

gtirloni wrote: post #5

If I got this right, we fight back by changing our avatars and putting banners on our blogs. Is that it?

The banners appear to be able to let you put in your zip code and then help you contact your relevant representatives in congress. If enough high-traffic sites participate, like what happened with the SOPA blackout, I could see this actually having an affect on policy. However, there probably needs to some kind of bill to support or other action to be urging representatives to do, other than contacting them saying th…

> If enough high-traffic sites participate, like what happened with the SOPA blackout, I could see this actually having an affect on policy.

The policy didn't change with SOPA or CISPA or whatever name they've snuck some of the same shit in by now. The policy is: more surveillance, more police state, less liberty.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#68

Post by niuzeta » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:22 PM UTC

salient wrote: post #28

niuzeta wrote: post #13

No, it's not fighting back. Making clever memes online to earn a chuckle or two might help spreading awareness , but in reality changing an online avatar and posting memes online won't affect much in real life. What I find strange is that(Please correct me on this one) there just doesn't seem to be a political group of technologist who lobby(the original meaning) against politicians. In truth, technology-related poli…

I'm pretty sure EFF, DemandProgress and the like are doing exactly that. Or are you saying they should form a Super PAC? But in that case, it won't exactly be "traditional lobbying", would it? It would be just paying politicians to do what they're asking them. I don't know whether that would be good or bad given the current corrupt lobbying system that the government has gotten accustomed to, but at least we should c…

> What I find strange is that (Please correct me on this one) there just doesn't seem to be a political group of technologist who lobby(the original meaning) against politicians.

Thank you. As I've stated I am rather ignorant of such groups. I stand corrected.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#69

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:22 PM UTC

l33tbro wrote: post #65

carlosdp wrote: post #42

You lost me at "(and [spying on] everyone else too)". Spying on other countries is what the NSA is built to do, and it's for good reason. Every country does it, that's how geopolitics work. The issue people have here is spying on US Citizens, which is not what they're supposed to be doing.

Poppycock. Give me some "good reasons" why spying on the private lives of citizens of ally countries is not an act of terrorism?

> Give me some "good reasons" why spying on the private lives of citizens of ally countries is not an act of terrorism?

Because terrorism is the use of violence or threat of violence directed at civilian populations or otherwise outside the generally accepted norms of warfare to effect political change, and spying, while it may support the use or threat of violence, is, in and of itself, neither the use nor threat of violence.

Re: The Day We Fight Back

#70

Post by gaius » Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #55

herbig wrote: post #18

"If Aaron were alive, he'd be on the front lines, fighting against a world in which governments observe, collect, and analyze our every digital action." While government surveillance and open access are both information issues, we definitely should not be construing what he would or wouldn't believe about revelations that were made after his death. If we're taking a literal interpretation of his Guerilla Open Access…

I think the emphasis on Aaron is really a mistake. I follow this news relatively closely, reading HN every day, and I don't really see how Aaron's abusive prosecutors tie in to the NSA stuff. The spying scandals are bad enough on their own. Adding Aaron's death into the mix just muddles the message and confuses people who are less informed.

Indeed, it muddies the issue. I am anti-NSA-spying but I am also anti-stealing-IP...

I should point out that I don't think Aaron should have been hounded to his death (tho' equally if he were mentally ill, anything could have pushed him over the edge). But that doesn't make what he did right. It has for 20 years baffled me that people can demand respect for the GPL et al but be happy to ride roughshod over anyone else's licenses.