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4K is for programmers

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Re: 4K is for programmers

#231

Post by jheriko »

knightni wrote: post #174
jheriko wrote: post #154

how is this better than multiple monitors? the support in Windows (and at least Ubuntu Linux) for e.g. maximising a window to fill a single monitor is excellent. The other thing, with any article like this where Windows is not used for testing makes me skeptical. Most programmers do not work in offices developing on Macs or Linux machines by a very large margin. Working on a mac for iOS and OS X development is someth…

An extremely large number of programmers use Mac and Linux machines. Linux on the desktop is sustained to a substantial extent by a programmer audience - and you only have to look at the availability of software for it to see that it's popular among that group. Personally, when I'm not using a unix-y environment, it's because I've been forced. Using windows as a programmer feels like having one of my hands chopped of…

sure it is a large number, but large != most.

every programmer i know works in a windows dominated environment. this is a small sample though.

i believe that in back-end only environments linux has some serious popularity but i can't comment on how many studios use it as their development platform because i have no great experience there (actually i work in office where they develop such things, but they use windows exclusively).

for desktop software, games and web front-end development windows is king. its the platform that all of your target audience are using to an excellent approximation. for AAA games there is an extra restriction that its the only practical choice (there are zero tools for working on any other platform). sure for iOS/OS X there is the same restriction to a mac and iOS development has become extremely popular - even so there is quite some resistance to using OS X and XCode as anything more than a test configuration on cross platform projects - I've seen a lot of macs dual booting to windows in this context. For android Linux can give you a small edge, but its not much...

Linux is obviously meant for programmers, but that doesn't mean they use it either - until quite recently even the best flavours were horrible user experiences. I think ubuntu is great and really takes steps to get away from the 'you download source and build your app with archaic and buggy tools at the command line' approach which has always dominated... in terms of doing your job though - unless you work on the backend of some web service you can't do any useful builds under Linux, unless you are targetting Linux desktop which is exceptionally rare.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#232

Post by Istof »

For movies, last time I checked about a year ago, it was still difficult to get a bluray that was real 1080 (they usually are DVDs converted to bluray and the quality is not any better) ... I wonder how many years it will take for 4k content to be widespread ...

Re: 4K is for programmers

#233

Post by MetaCosm »

artmageddon wrote: post #219
MetaCosm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried calibrated it with both X-Rite and Spyder (both physical calibration devices) -- neither could get it anywhere near "average". It just swings all over the place. Also, calibration can't fix horrible blacks, uneven brightness and the finish. What equipment did you use? Can you post your pre/post scores? I have NEVER met anyone who has been able to actually calibrate it into even "average" ranges. I realize tha…

>I tried calibrated it with both X-Rite and Spyder (both physical calibration devices) -- neither could get it anywhere near "average". It just swings all over the place. Also, calibration can't fix horrible blacks, uneven brightness and the finish. If you don't mind me asking, which version of Spyder did you try? Edit/Disclaimer: (I work for the company that produces it)

4PRO.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#234

Post by MetaCosm »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #220
cdr wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I've tried it, but dual 30" seems like it'd be a bit much for me. Or the OP's dream 50". There's only so much you can focus on at a time, and only so far you can turn your head to change focus, though I guess depending on what you do you might want more areas of focus. 3 window columns seems to be where I'm most comfortable, but I've never tried a display bigger than 1x30". I do keep a 'dashboard' on a small…

You don't focus on everything at once. Secondary windows can be viewed peripherally -- for instance you can tail a log, and your peripheral vision will notice motion. The other benefit is multiple windows as an alternative to alt-tab. Moving your eyes slightly is a lot easier than pressing alt-tab -- it's can be done without concious thought, so it doesn't interrupt your "zone".

A friend of mine swears by those little cheap USB monitors as little mini log viewers.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#235

Post by rfnslyr »

bebna wrote: post #145
fhd2 wrote: post #130

> At our office, we just equipped all of the programmers' workstations with Seiki 39" 4K televisions as monitors. [...] For the time being, there is no single higher-productivity display for a programmer. Maybe it's just me, but I'm most productive on a 13" laptop. I can change my work place and position as I want, plus only one app fitting on the screen actually helps me focus. Emacs/tmux/IDE users can do most progr…

I prefer: > 12" 1440x900 (X200s) > 14.1" 1440x900 (T400) Resolution is big enough, mobile, keyboard is normal sized and you can see your coworker while talking to him .

MBPr 15" @ 2880 * 1800, scaled to the smallest possible size. It's awesome.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#236

Post by bhauer »

MetaCosm wrote: post #230
bhauer wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the reality-check. I really do appreciate it and hope anyone reading my words reads yours as counterpoint. I had tried to be fair-handed with my judgment of the Seiki but I admit that my desire for large form-factor displays coupled with Seiki delivering one that I can actually afford clouds my judgment some. I want high-quality large displays and the incumbent manufacturers have left me in the cold for…

First of all, you can get the U3014 for around $1100, less on sale. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00C2RPW8O/ref=dp_olp... ... additionally, it is a "professional" monitor (X-Rite tie in, factory calibrated, etc) and will likely maintain a premium price as corporations are the target customers. Secondly, the Seiki is not a "good" monitor. It isn't even a "good" TV. The only thing Seiki has is pixel density a…

Good to hear that the Dell prices have not actually increased to $1,600. I was a bit shocked by that when I searched at Newegg. Still, it's exceedingly frustrating that the price of a 30" professional monitor has been locked at $1,100 since they were introduced in 2005 (or was it even earlier?).

I suppose you and I just disagree on what is good and what is not. I've personally used the Seiki for the past few days. We just got them this week. I value the quantity of pixels and price a little more than color accuracy, balance, and uniformity. I want even better specs. I want 60Hz most of all. But given the balance of priorities, I personally think the scale tips toward size and resolution to maximize my own productivity. 60 Hz though, I'll take it in a heartbeat.

The blog entry is just my opinion and I understand your opinion is strongly opposed. That's fine.

Answers: (1) A total of about 6 hours a day for the past few days. They just arrived. Key quality of life improvements have been using the firmware patch to allow the backlight to be dimmed and using dark color schemes. Most of us were using dark color schemes already since we prefer those at any resolution. (2) I'm not going to bother answering this in detail. From the reactions I've seen, we're very happy with the upgrade.

Seiki has a lot of room for improvement. I take it your opinion is that they have a huge amount of improving to do. I really want the whole desktop display market to improve dramatically. It has been stagnant for so long that I really treasure these recent developments. As much as I acknowledge this display's weaknesses, I see it as a harbinger of some long overdue innovation. For that alone I am very happy.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#237

Post by sosborn »

Istof wrote: post #232

For movies, last time I checked about a year ago, it was still difficult to get a bluray that was real 1080 (they usually are DVDs converted to bluray and the quality is not any better) ... I wonder how many years it will take for 4k content to be widespread ...

Not my experience at all, although I could see that being true for older movies.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#238

Post by lsaferite »

larve wrote: post #161
r0h1n wrote: post #82

The article lists the "ideal size" for monitors at 50 inches, and the one for TVs at 100+ inches! While I'm sure it's great to have such massive screen real estate (I wanna get a 4K in 2014 too), I can't but help think this is the programmer equivalent of consumers buying needlessly large TVs. I work on a 24" desktop monitor and a 14" laptop one. How is 50" the "ideal size"? Even 39"? At what point does the law of di…

I use 6 19" monitors (using a combination of display port, HDMI, display link adapters). It's a bit of a mess to set up, but I like the actual physical splitting of the monitors (I have the logfile monitor, the google chrome monitor, the firefox monitor, the jira monitor, the editor monitor, etc...). Also, it plays in very well with a tiling window manager where I can just switch windows from one monitor to the next…

But, given a single large very high resolution monitor and a tiling WM, don't you get the same in the end but with vastly simpler hardware setups?

If you are so keen on the 'physical separation' then perhaps a WM that includes some synthetic black bars to give defined visual separation of tiles?

You didn't specify what resolutions your monitors are running. Out of curiosity, what are they?

Re: 4K is for programmers

#239

Post by sosborn »

wyager wrote: post #11
jmgrosen wrote: post #4

Does anyone know if the 15" 2012 MBPR (that is, MacBookPro10,1) supports 4K with its HDMI output under Mavericks? Of course, it will only be 30Hz, but that's tolerable.

I've read officially no, but Apple frequently gives "official" specs that claim a feature isn't supported when really it is. For example, every macbook pro in the last 5 or 6 years that had replaceable RAM had an actual RAM limit that was double what Apple said was its RAM limit. I wouldn't be surprised if 4K works, albeit perhaps a little sluggishly.

>Apple frequently gives "official" specs that claim a feature isn't supported when really it is.

"Supported" is not the same thing as "it works".

Re: 4K is for programmers

#240

Post by dmourati »

bradleyland wrote: post #202
ams6110 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At work I have dual 30" Dell monitors, which I use with a tiling window manager (I use awesome [1]). To see the far right/left sides I almost have to roll the chair left or right so I tend to keep editor windows and browser windows where I'm actually reading text in my central field of vision, and keep other windows on the outer margins. Also they do consume nearly all my desk space, so sometimes I think a single lar…

I switched my dual monitor orientation to a primary 27" (iMac) running 2560x1440, with my secondary 24" running 1200x1920 in portrait orientation. It is, at first, disorientating to have the two monitors eschew but once you get used to it, the reduction in straight from looking far left or right out weighs the strange look. The added benefit is that you get 1920 pixels of vertical resolution for those times that you…

Eschew or askew?
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