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Money and wealth

swombat.com

21–30 of 193 posts

Re: Money and wealth

#21
This is very well said and relevant in the context of our fascination with the "Net Worth" of wealthy individuals who often happen to be in technology. Gates, Zuckerberg, Ellison etc. own property/assets that could potentially be sold for billions but are different from those actual amounts in cash.

What particularly comes to mind was when Kevin Rose was on the cover of [was it Newsweek? Time?] proclaiming that Digg was worth $60 million or something. He had to state at least once that he did not actually have $60 million in cash on hand.

Re: Money and wealth

#22
"Robert Kiyosaki, author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad (worth reading along with its sequels), proposes that rich people get rich by building their net income generating assets column (i.e. things that generate positive cash flow each month, not "buy and pray" investments like most stocks or houses)"

In short this is the equivalent of "find a good lawyer" type advice. Gee thanks for that tip. (As an aside I have those assets and I've done that type of thing with success).

The problem is finding those assets and not overpaying for them and making a good deal. Just like someone saying "you have to find a woman/man who is this not that!". Ok go find that person.

The other thing that I have observed over many many years (starting in college when I worked for a lawyer and dealt with some of the deals he was involved in) is that many people who have those assets got them by being turned on to them by people that they know (their attorney, a friend, a business associate) so they are out there circulating in the world and get presented (similar in a much smaller way to what Warren Buffet does) with opportunities. Could be a fraternity brother they keep in touch with etc.

That said you still (and this is important) have to know enough to take advantage of the opportunities (so it's not just luck obviously) and of course be the type of person who even is associated with others who have identified opportunities. See [1].

As far as investing in your house well I could spin that the other way. A nice house gives you the opportunity to entertain and meet people. People always like a good party. And if you have a vacation home people will always want to come to your vacation home and stay over. [1] In short, if you have nice things people want to be around you. You meet people. Those people are contacts that can help you with opportunities.

[1] I had a vacation home (actually still do) and had a boat. It is a great way to socialize and entertain. Regardless of whether those people are the type that are truly friends or not there is a business value to making contact with people like that in certain situations.

Re: Money and wealth

#23

I like how you defined heath, education, and intelligence as the raw materials, but they don't directly give you the return that will make you wealthy. You need to apply those skills in some way to make income generating assets, and that is the tricky part. For most people, including Robert Kiyosaki, income producing assets basically means buying and renting out property. I disagree with doing that on so many levels…

>but interest rates are currently so low that it's almost impossible to get escape velocity through low risk investments.

This period is not unique in this regard. Interest rate is always risk-related. There may been times of higher absolute rates on things like savings accounts, but the real returns and opportunity costs were similar.

What I'm saying is, there are plenty of investment opportunities; the stock market just rose almost 30% in 2013.

Re: Money and wealth

#24
I'd rather paraphrase a great American speaker quoting an old English gentleman:

"The wealth of man is not measured by material computation."

Re: Money and wealth

#25
Very good comments, though I disagree on just one point: Money is a medium of exchange for wealth, it is not a store of wealth.

It actually is a store of wealth. Money buys investments, which is where you store wealth. Money is easily transferable in and out of interest bearing accounts, which is a way to store wealth.

Re: Money and wealth

#26

I like how you defined heath, education, and intelligence as the raw materials, but they don't directly give you the return that will make you wealthy. You need to apply those skills in some way to make income generating assets, and that is the tricky part. For most people, including Robert Kiyosaki, income producing assets basically means buying and renting out property. I disagree with doing that on so many levels…

You are right; I've worked out the "accumulating savings" part reasonably well, but the "building wealth" is still eluding me. Stock market index funds seemed to be a good answer in the past. By owning them, you share in the economic growth and income of your country (or another country or set of countries) as a whole. Although, the spectre of Japanese-style stagflation for most of the West makes this less appealing…

I think a lot of people misunderstand what a pain in the ass buying and renting property can be. Unless one is wealthy enough to own multiple properties and have a full-time management company doing all of his work for him, he's going to be taking a fairly hands-on role. Most tennants are flaky. Our perceptions of such might be colored by the fact that -- I assume -- a lot of us here are white-collar professionals making respectable incomes, or who could quickly arrange a steady enough job if needed. Most people aren't like that. Those people are your likely tennants, again, unless you're wealthy enough to afford higher-end rental property.

Then there's the legal minefield. Being a developer or landlord makes one person very rich very quickly, and that person is your lawyer. Especially in the Bay Area. People here pretty much threaten lawsuits if they made eye contact with a teenager on the sidewalk, or if their cat's not eating its food, or if they don't care for the weather on any given day.

Source: I own a small apartment building in LA and sit on my HOA board in SF. I am the definition of a small-time real estate owner in the uncanny valley: not poor enough to not give a shit, but not nearly rich enough to do so, either.

I'm not a full-time landlord; it's more of a nights-and-weekends thing. But it sucks up a not-very-fun proportion of my nights and weekends, and every now and then, it eats into my workday as well. I would recommend landlording to people born into significant wealth, who can buy multiple properties and let a management company deal with the headaches. I would not recommend it as an upward path for those who aren't prepared to make real estate a full-time job, and who can't afford to jump a few rungs up the ladder at the outset.

Re: Money and wealth

#27
The (money-theoretic) paper that most affected me during economics education was "Money is Memory"; https://research.mpls.frb.fed.us/research/sr/sr218.pdf

It doesn't have much to do with getting wealthy, but it is a very elegant explanation of money as a technology to track members' contributions to society and their deserving of the fruits of society's labour.

Money can be modelled as a shared memory, track record, of contributions.

If it was evident to my grocer, that those abstract thoughts and lines of code I created had value, I could then have credit for adequate food; if the whole value chain was transparent and inherently obvious to everyone...

Can cryptocurrencies displace this (outdated, imperfect) technology?

Re: Money and wealth

#29
I know there is a lot of truth in this article but I personally find it quite hard to decide what assets to invest the cash I own. I don't have enough to buy property but it is still too much to keep it in cash. As I know little about the stock market I see funds as a promising investment.

Re: Money and wealth

#30

Robert Kiyosaki's claims are pretty hard to verify. Rich Dad, Poor Dad is not a good source for financial information. Edit: Forbes link ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/10/10/rich-dad-... )

Kiyosaki teamed up with Donald Trump to write a more recent book, titled, "We Want You To Be Rich!". That speaks volumes about their angle and market.

That said, the core philosophy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad is a good lesson: make your money make money by buying "assets" and avoiding "liabilities".

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