Theirself or Themself? • Hacker News Board

Re: Theirself or Themself?

#41

Post by 70forty » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:48 PM UTC

joshuapants wrote: post #12

70forty wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what authority is this the technically correct word? Some dictionary or grammar book? Where did they get their authority to determine this? Really the only way to decide what is "correct" where language usage is concerned is to see how people actually speak/write, AKA a descriptive approach. Do a corpus study and then you'll have some basis to make a claim about what is and isn't standard usage.

>Really the only way to decide what is "correct" where language usage is concerned is to see how people actually speak/write, AKA a descriptive approach. This is tangentially related: the English language is a bit unusual in how flexible it is to change along with common usage. Other languages can have their usage dictated by the government; Germany, France, and Japan have all had noted language reforms that in some…

Do you know some examples of this for French, German or Japanese?

I know about the French Academy, for example. I would have assumed their influence didn't extend much beyond orthographic/spelling conventions.

Re: Theirself or Themself?

#42

Post by 70forty » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:50 PM UTC

gr3yh47 wrote: post #14

70forty wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what authority is this the technically correct word? Some dictionary or grammar book? Where did they get their authority to determine this? Really the only way to decide what is "correct" where language usage is concerned is to see how people actually speak/write, AKA a descriptive approach. Do a corpus study and then you'll have some basis to make a claim about what is and isn't standard usage.

Saying I can only make a claim if I have done a certain study is somewhat absurd, especially when you are, with that suggestion, claiming to be the authority on how to determine what is correct.

I gave you a method for determining standard usage.

Re: Theirself or Themself?

#43

Post by greyfade » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:59 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #39

normloman wrote: post #18

Writer here. The author is a programmer. An expert in formal languages. Formal languages have to be logically consistent. Not English. "Themselves" is correct, even if it's inconsistent, because it's what most people say and understand. That's the point of a natural language. Not to be neat and orderly, but to be understood.

English speaker here. I can't bring myself to say, "Pat climbed the mountain by themselves."

American English speaker here. I've said "themselves" in this context my entire life, and have only ever heard this word from my peers.

I have never heard anyone say "themself" or "theirself" and both words sound incredibly awkward to me.

Re: Theirself or Themself?

#44

Post by omonra » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 11:41 PM UTC

autodidakto wrote: post #34

spellboots wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be technically correct. Today, it is technically incorrect, because society today acknowledges that women are full, living, breathing human beings and may in fact be referred to as such in polite conversation.

What is this "women" creature that so many men speak so passionately of?

CES booth babes are apparently predominantly 'women'.

Re: Theirself or Themself?

#45

Post by normloman » Thu, Jan 09, 2014, 2:59 PM UTC

gr3yh47 wrote: post #36

normloman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_description ^^^ Read it for your own good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_written_English ^^^ Read it for your own good

And I'm sure if you asked editors at big publishing houses or english teachers, most would tell you to prefer "themselves." Themself is a new construction that hasn't caught on. Purveyors of "standard" English have to err on the side of conservatism.