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Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

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Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#21

Post by HarveyKandola »

Edmond wrote: post #19
HarveyKandola wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameless plug: we @Countersoft actually compete with Jira all day long. But I hear you - there's not many enterprise grade issue trackers (that don't suck).

Nothing shameless! So how does one get a start selling software to enterprise? Granted your product is SAAS so I suppose that reduces the barrier. I spent 6 years doing Enterprise consulting but as a workerbee I don't believe that gives me much of a leg up, compared to say someone who was an exec. I don't want to start cold calling/emailing former clients and coworkers :)

Actually, we are not really 100% SaaS.

Over half our sales are still On-Premise: download and install. Shock. Horror.

From a tech standpoint that's tough because the same web app has to run under Windows IIS and then scale to handle SaaS customers in our own cloud setup.

Barrier? You should see the crap you have to handle in order to just install .NET web app onto say a financial company's hardware. SaaS guys have it easy!

In terms of Enterprise Sales we have lead generation activities with inside sales folks who provide product demos. Took a while to get it right. Trade shows, banners, magazines - none of this stuff works for us in enterprise sales, where customers hand over tens of thousands of dollars for a software license.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#22

Post by Joe8Bit »

jacques_chester wrote: post #17
ig1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be in the US to be listed in the US, Atlassian are actually moving to the UK but listing in the US.

Right. I'm going on the article's assertion that relocating to the UK will make it easier to launch an IPO in a US market. Tax would be a big part of that. I expect that American familiarity and comfort with UK companies would be another.

I also suspect the relative ease of relocating a large number Australian's to the UK would have a big impact (ease of getting visa's etc).

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#23

Post by frabcus »

jacques_chester wrote: post #10
wluu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow Ausssie, I'm also sad about this. By the sounds of it, they've given this move a lot of careful consideration. But, rather than just be sad about it... Might be a good opportunity to discuss what can be done to improve on the situation for future Australian companies? In what ways can navigating through the red tape be made simpler? I know there's a lot of small startups springing up across at least Melbo…

It's probably not about red tape. It's that companies listed on US exchanges have higher valuations than companies listed on the ASX. There's just not that much red tape in Australia. Starting and running a company costs a few hundred bucks per year. If you keep up your books, reporting takes a few minutes per quarter. Bam, you've successfully navigated all the red tape needed to run a software business.

You could make it easier to buy shares from abroad.

I tried to buy NZ stock exchange shares in the UK, and my broker didn't cover it.

Not sure what the situation with Australian ones is. But basically, the more brokers abroad that can get them, the less the advantage of being on NASDAQ.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#24

Post by jacques_chester »

frabcus wrote: post #23
jacques_chester wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not about red tape. It's that companies listed on US exchanges have higher valuations than companies listed on the ASX. There's just not that much red tape in Australia. Starting and running a company costs a few hundred bucks per year. If you keep up your books, reporting takes a few minutes per quarter. Bam, you've successfully navigated all the red tape needed to run a software business.

You could make it easier to buy shares from abroad. I tried to buy NZ stock exchange shares in the UK, and my broker didn't cover it. Not sure what the situation with Australian ones is. But basically, the more brokers abroad that can get them, the less the advantage of being on NASDAQ.

I don't think that's to do with our regulations; it's just that Australia's share market is miniscule compared to those in the global capitals of capital. NZ even more so. There's not enough retail investor interest to cover the costs.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#25

Post by rayiner »

jacques_chester wrote: post #18
nikcub wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is all about corporate tax rates, capital gains, transfer pricing, etc.

Could you elaborate? It'd be interesting to know more.

I don't know about Australia's system, but the U.K. has been a popular target for reincorporation of American companies, along with Ireland and Switzerland: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044423050.... Bermuda, a popular domicile in the past, apparently made certain changes to its tax code that caused companies to move to European countries.

For corporations, tax rates lead to domicile-shopping because finance analysts use Earnings per Share (EPS), which is computed after taxes, as a key measure of company performance. Relocating from somewhere in the U.S. to the U.K. might substantially increase the total taxes paid by employees and executives (almost every developed country has a higher individual tax burden than the U.S.), but it can goose that all-important EPS number.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#26

Post by jacques_chester »

Joe8Bit wrote: post #22
jacques_chester wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm going on the article's assertion that relocating to the UK will make it easier to launch an IPO in a US market. Tax would be a big part of that. I expect that American familiarity and comfort with UK companies would be another.

I also suspect the relative ease of relocating a large number Australian's to the UK would have a big impact (ease of getting visa's etc).

I think it's easier to get Australians into the USA on the E3 visa.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#27

Post by jacques_chester »

rayiner wrote: post #25
jacques_chester wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate? It'd be interesting to know more.

I don't know about Australia's system, but the U.K. has been a popular target for reincorporation of American companies, along with Ireland and Switzerland: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044423050... . Bermuda, a popular domicile in the past, apparently made certain changes to its tax code that caused companies to move to European countries. For corporations, tax rates lead to domicile-shopping b…

Well part of the confusion is that one reason for our headline rate, as I understand it, is because we have franking for company/income tax.

So Australian companies tend to pay dividends much more freely than US companies, but the headline corporate tax rate is higher.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#28

Post by rayiner »

jacques_chester wrote: post #27
rayiner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Australia's system, but the U.K. has been a popular target for reincorporation of American companies, along with Ireland and Switzerland: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044423050... . Bermuda, a popular domicile in the past, apparently made certain changes to its tax code that caused companies to move to European countries. For corporations, tax rates lead to domicile-shopping b…

Well part of the confusion is that one reason for our headline rate, as I understand it, is because we have franking for company/income tax. So Australian companies tend to pay dividends much more freely than US companies, but the headline corporate tax rate is higher.

That's actually an interesting illustration of the dynamic. The management at publicly-listed companies are very preoccupied with what finance analysts have to say about the stock. When someone at Morgan Stanley compares two companies on an EPS basis, what's relevant is the rate paid by the company. It comes down to $0.28 per share versus $0.35 per share, even if other features of the tax code mitigate that difference when a dividend is actually paid out.

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#29

Post by Edmond »

HarveyKandola wrote: post #21
Edmond wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing shameless! So how does one get a start selling software to enterprise? Granted your product is SAAS so I suppose that reduces the barrier. I spent 6 years doing Enterprise consulting but as a workerbee I don't believe that gives me much of a leg up, compared to say someone who was an exec. I don't want to start cold calling/emailing former clients and coworkers :)

Actually, we are not really 100% SaaS. Over half our sales are still On-Premise: download and install. Shock. Horror. From a tech standpoint that's tough because the same web app has to run under Windows IIS and then scale to handle SaaS customers in our own cloud setup. Barrier? You should see the crap you have to handle in order to just install .NET web app onto say a financial company's hardware. SaaS guys have it…

Haha..No surprise On-Premise is big, though going by marketing buzz one would think the opposite.

It is good to know it "Took a while to get it right", helps set expectations :)

Re: Atlassian Seeks Domicile Move to Pave Way for U.S. Initial Offer

#30

Post by 3825 »

wil421 wrote: post #12

I hope the move helps them and doesnt cause their products to suffer. We use Jira in my organization and I hope that we can eventually get off SVN and move to Stash or Bitbucket. Although thats probably a pipe dream but I still favor Git over SVN.

Start with git-svn bridge locally and convert interested teammates one at a time.

Just remember that until everyone is on board, you need strict discipline as SVN has a much small feature set the Git does. Thereby, you should read the git-svn documentation closely and not use any incompatible Git features. Good luck!

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