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Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

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Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#81

Post by erichurkman »

niallpaterson wrote: post #60
davidw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my business account as well. I love open source software, but from a bank...I just want them to give me a good deal and be helpful.

interesting. Why would you be against an open source bank? Would you agree that banks aren't exactly cutting edge? If so, wouldn't it be better if they were? (More features, easier experience)? Thanks :)

Most businesses are probably running the majority of their banking through banking software -- so long as the bank integrates with their package of choice (Peachtree, etc), most won't care beyond basic friendly business banking practices.

Banks are not cutting edge in general, at least not in the US. If you look at other markets, like Europe, they adopted a lot of technology must faster than US banks: two-factor auth tokens, sending money via SMS, for example.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#82

Post by erichurkman »

niallpaterson wrote: post #40
nollidge wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you mean by "bank with", then. I put my money in and take it out as needed with my credit union. I have direct deposit, a credit card, checking, and savings. I have web-based tools where I can immediately shuffle money between accounts. What is missing from that set of use cases? EDIT: Oxford comma

I think the US (like always) is maybe a little lucky when it comes to CU's, but copying from my postscript I think if you were to look at the three things I mentioned - online, non profit and open source, non profit is the one I think is least differentiable if that makes any sense. I think an online open source bank is the real innovative part, not the non profit part.

Don't forget, non-profit != not-for-profit.

Credit unions cannot really exist as non-profits; they aren't funded by donations, and they generally do have to operate at a small profit.

Most credit unions are not-for-profit. They must operate at a small surplus in order to guarantee solvency and operational cash. A typical company generates profits for the benefit of owners & shareholders, whereas the credit union not-for-profit generates profit to provide better services, better rates, etc.

(Non-profit status is usually for charities, and banking is not a charitable activity.)

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#83

Post by niallpaterson »

stephenbez wrote: post #77

What do you mean by open source? Do you want the banks website to be open source, or all of the back office code that talks to ancient mainframes and proprietary 3rd party applications? What will draw customers (other then fellow developers) to a bank with open source software?

Good Question. Lets take the scenario where we are partnering with another bank. So then we have two main applications or systems - 1) Integration with their api (I'm assuming this would be a fairly big thing considering the complexities) and 2) Our API/App i.e what people would actually use. I would see the second one there being open source, but not the first one, for obvious security reasons. Furthermore, apps and other smaller services would be open source. I think if you can portray an image that you are transparant and in a non technical way, have it as part of the brand as such, it might interest people. Get me?

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#84

Post by niallpaterson »

jasdeepsingh wrote: post #69
dragonwriter wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People won't "bank" when it comes to Bitcoin - There's no need of a Banking system really. Banking is about borrowing and lending. The idea that using bitcoin eliminates the need to borrow and lend money is something that could use support.

The whole point of de-centralizing a financial system is to move away from a central source for lending & borrowing. With Crypto currencies, it would be easier than ever for you to lend/borrow money to/from your friends/colleagues/investors etc. The idea & support for transactions like borrowing, lending, escrow and likely all other transaction types that you can think of are already built into Bitcoin & it's design.…

I like bitcoin, but a government has the right to define the currency it's citizens use (i.e what is legal tender and what's not) and I think for a bank targeting ordinary people, you have to deal in legal tender. I don't think a bank for the 0.0001% who use bitcoin is going to be able to revolutionise banking..

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#85

Post by davidw »

erichurkman wrote: post #81
niallpaterson wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting. Why would you be against an open source bank? Would you agree that banks aren't exactly cutting edge? If so, wouldn't it be better if they were? (More features, easier experience)? Thanks :)

Most businesses are probably running the majority of their banking through banking software -- so long as the bank integrates with their package of choice (Peachtree, etc), most won't care beyond basic friendly business banking practices. Banks are not cutting edge in general, at least not in the US. If you look at other markets, like Europe, they adopted a lot of technology must faster than US banks: two-factor auth…

My bank here in Italy has a pretty good web interface, and very easy money transfers with IBAN. Other than that though, I prefer the low fees in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#86

Post by justincormack »

You might be better off by starting to develop open source software for existing banks that align with the other values. just to get started. The regulatory side is hard and expensive.

Banks to look at are Metro (UK), Handelsbanken (Sweden and elsewhere), Triodos.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#87

Post by lolgek »

I personally think that the problem with banks is that they do so much more than what they are supposed to do. The only thing I need from a bank is a place to "store" my money, and possibly make transactions.

That's all, that's what a bank is supposed to do. Also no interest rate, my dad used to be a member of a group here in the Netherlands who wanted to create a bank of their own too. I never really understood it, I was just 10-12 when it was most active, but what I understood from it was that there would be no interest rates. You might try searching for it on google, it was called CMN. There is a Dutch book about it written by Hank Monrobey. You'll have more chance of finding that than anything else about it.

Here is a link: http://books.google.nl/books?id=2uTzrLOGfGwC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA...

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#88

Post by patmcc »

Here's what I would do if my country needed this (Canada has very strong Credit Unions already, that accomplish nearly all of what you want. I actually work for them, on online banking software):

1. Form a credit union, or partner with an existing one. This is a very good structure for a financial institution that is open and non-profit. You don't need any physical branches, you can be online only.

2. Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583 , check out a project like http://www.jpos.org/ - this is the standard all financial institutions (and ATMs, debit terminals, etc.) use to talk to each other.

3. You'll also need the actual banking database-of-record software (banking system, banking host software are commons terms). There are some open ones already out there, I can't speak to their quality.

4. If you just want retail banking (ATM cards, current accounts, etc.) you're pretty much done. If you want to offer loans/mortgages, things get a lot more complicated.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#89

Post by rouan »

That's great and all, but I think just starting a new bank is not good enough.

In my opinion if we can combine some of the good ideas behind bitcoin with those in your list. Im not saying bitcoin is the right model. I think we need to think hard about what enables trade, growth and a society that enables not just a good standard of living, but also makes collaboration easier on large (think planet wide) projects. Automatic auditing should be built in from the ground up, transparency will allow trust between parties both private and public. Community voted policies that reflect in specific functions/code that can be made part of the transaction system to collect taxes that we can use to fund schools, infrastructure and other projects communities decide are worth funding.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#90

Post by rouan »

parkman wrote: post #78

I was just musing about this too ( http://domitable.com/content/it-time-protocol-renaissance ) The enabling technology of the outcome you are after will likely be a protocol rather than a service, as a service only succeeds if it can outdo the competition, which leads to more fracturing rather than unity. Just as HTTP enabled the document Web, the development of a Hyper Payment Transfer Protocol (or Hyperfunds Transf…

I agree that the protocol is the key. Its quite useful to think of the protocol for transactions to be similar to a transaction in the realworld. A discussion on terms of the deal, a transfer of goods/services, perhaps a lingering of a favour owed. Perhaps in the future every person will have their own "currency", with their own exchange rate with every other person they ever meet or deal with.
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