Live data from Hacker News

Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

news.ycombinator.com

21–30 of 165 posts

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#21
Disclosure: I am a mathematics teacher. (I teach prealgebra to elementary-age pupils.) I am NOT a programmer. But I think the correct answer to the question is "it depends." In other words, even though you have specified a level of programming, "bog standard, journeymen, CRUD programming in Objective-C," and even though you have laid out the usual progression through the usual school mathematics topics in the English-speaking world, you haven't given enough information to match the levels.

Some people program insightfully, or so I am told by people who program, and other people program nothing but kludges. Among mathematics learners, there are great variations in the levels of "profound understanding of fundamental mathematics" (PUFM) among people who are studying the "same" level of mathematics. It interested me that you mentioned neither number theory nor combinatorics among your list of secondary mathematics courses, because in some other countries, those courses would come well before calculus. In general, any reader of Hacker News could learn a lot about what is missing in the United States (or, more generally, in the English-speaking world) in elementary mathematics instruction by reading Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics: Teachers' Understanding of Fundamental Mathematics in China and the United States by Liping Ma.[1] There is a lot to basic mathematics that is far from easy, if deep understanding is what you are looking for. In the countries that excel over the United States in mathematics instruction, proof is part of every mathematics course, not just part of geometry, for example.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematic...

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#22
I wrote a driving game in C about that age and the hardest thing to figure out was vectors and sin/cos-stuff (you have to separate speed and direction even in a simple driving game) so I guess the programming part is easier than that. Although it's just hard because I didn't know about those concepts at that time. And of course, the code was very simple.

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#23
post #2

What type of programming, what paradigm, at what scale, and dozens of other questions... I can think of numerous areas where each of these is not only "analogous", but directly used. - Want to even think of committing to scalaz/haskell? Category theory and lambda calculus. - Want to develop a physics engine for a modern 3d shooter? Geometry, trig, single/mutli-variable calc, algebra, and differential equations. - Wan…

[deleted]

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#24
I voted for discrete mathematics for two reasons:

(1) It has relatively few pre-requisites in comparison to advanced calculus (which I'm assuming means something like a first course in real analysis).

(2) It isn't rote. There's more creative thought involved in solving problems. Even high school calculus is often extremely rote. I think programming is rarely rote, even if it's just a CRUD app. You have to strategize about how to approach the overall architecture of the program and make predictions about how early design decisions will affect future extensibility and more.

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#25
post #5

For Objective-C (or any objective language): geometry. Qualities of objects, and their role in relation to other objects are really all there is. Also, memory, which is all we are manipulating at the end of the day, is linear; points on a line.

the time series for RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY is far from anything resembling linearity. Nor is a snapshot of it at any point in time usually. RAM is equivalent of "tape" in a Turing machine. If its anything resembling linear for any amount of time, the machine would not be Turing complete ... and therefore a not very interesting programming language/model.

Ah, apparently I do not fully understand the hardware implementation.

Consistent, in software at least, is the concept of memory being linear; references using a start and end point, and points between.

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#26
I think programming actually requires linguistic skills. When you program you are actually writing in a language, and you have to respect it's syntax and structure.

Therefore I don't think it should be compared with math. Unless you are writing a program for a very specific scientific problem that requires the elaboration of a mathematical model.

Usually the computer does all the math, all you need to do is type the operations you need it to calculate.

I'm not saying they're completely unrelated, I just think linguistic skills are more relevant in most cases

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#27
It's not.

There are certain levels of math or logic needed for various programming tasks, but it is not 'analogous' to any level.

For example, function composition is very useful in programming and thus Algebra (or was it Algebra 2???) comes in handy for understanding that at a basic level.

However, if you're doing graphics programming, then you often need experience with geometry (composition of basic shapes to form more complicated shapes, linear algebra (matrix operations), and modern algebra (quaternions).

Re: Poll: What level of math is programming roughly analogous to?

#29

Disclosure: I am a mathematics teacher. (I teach prealgebra to elementary-age pupils.) I am NOT a programmer. But I think the correct answer to the question is "it depends." In other words, even though you have specified a level of programming, "bog standard, journeymen, CRUD programming in Objective-C," and even though you have laid out the usual progression through the usual school mathematics topics in the English…

> In the countries that excel over the United States in mathematics instruction, proof is part of every mathematics course, not just part of geometry, for example.

There's room to wonder about how much of a causative role this has, and how much it reflects consumer demand. When my sister started taking algebra, my parents asked me to help her, and I was careful to provide proofs of all the algebraic properties of exponents (e.g. x^m * x^n = x^{m+n}; x^0 = 1; like that). That's not usual in the US, and didn't feature in her textbooks or supplements, but I did it basically just because it was important to me.

Post reply on HN