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Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

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Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#71

There are so-called "sustainable banks". The largest in Europe is Triodos, they also have a British subsidiary. Globally they are networked through the Global Alliance for Banking on Values ( http://gabv.org ). Key features of those banks are transparency as to how much money is lent to whom (there's a Google Maps based tool on Triodos' website to discover their borrowers), non-financing of certain industries (e.g. w…

I would be very interested in a bank that is open source, radically transparent, and run for the benefit of the community.

The code for the website, backoffice systems, credit scoring, and fraud detection could be open-sourced and continually improved.

Data on credit decisions would be available to any member to scrutinize and challenge, thus reducing fraudulent or unwise loans and identifying opportunities to expand profitable lending.

The bank's individual loans and investments would be public, perhaps lightly scrubbed of personal identifying information. Regulators, journalists, and motivated individuals could see if sweetheart deals are being made at the expense of the membership or the deposit insurance fund.

The bank could publish a public "blockchain" of transactions similar to Bitcoin so financial statements could be reconciled down to the transaction level. This might make it much more difficult to hide fraud and abuse.

Incidents of fraud and default would be published as they occur. The resulting social pressure should reduce the bank's costs, and the data could be used to improve credit and membership decisions.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#72
Banks have 2 key functions: 1. Taking deposits and lending them out again. i.e. creating money through the credit creation process. 2. Providing money transfer capabilities.

positvemoney.org runs a policy campaign which makes a compelling argument for a separation of these two functions as a response to the financial crisis. One of the arguments is that when the investments of banks fail, our ability to transact fails with them. Not exactly a resilient system.

There are a number of existing open source projects to create libraries and protocols to generically provide money transfers. http://opencoin.org (disclaimer: I am involved with this project) http://opentransactions.org http://opencoin.com - open source but very much commercial

Those who say bitcoin is addressing these functions are misguided. Bitcoin is arguably a currency tightly integrated with a transaction technology. In theory the bitcoin transaction technology could be re-worked to be useful as a library for money transfers (non-anonymous). I imagine that would be a significant amount of work.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#73

If you haven't watched "Bank Of Dave" you really should check it out. Basically this guy setup a 'bank' and the show documents all the troubles throughout the process and the hoops he had the jump through to open. Check it out. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/bank-of-dave

Will do. Is that setting up a bank from scratch though? Partnering would/should remove a lot of the logisitics.

Yes, I guess he is starting from 'scratch' but the show aligns really well with your ideas and I think it will help you at least see someone go down that path and what comes up and what you might need to get started. Anyways, check it out, pretty interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#74

If you haven't watched "Bank Of Dave" you really should check it out. Basically this guy setup a 'bank' and the show documents all the troubles throughout the process and the hoops he had the jump through to open. Check it out. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/bank-of-dave

Looks like the videos are locked by region. How do I get around this? Are the videos hosted somewhere else?

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#75

My credit union is in the US and I have 2 checking accounts, savings accounts, auto loans, etc through them. I can use any shared branch ATM for no fee too. I have had several credit unions in the past and they have all offered everything you said they dont in your posting.

That's pretty nice. Is there some kind of online/mobile setup?

Yeah. They have web banking and a mobile app. I can even deposit checks from my phone.

I have to ask though, is this seriously not the case for CU's in Ireland? I think here in the US this is totally common place and nobody would use a CU if they didn't offer these services.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#76
post #4

I think you'll need to define "bank" first. What services does a bank offer that you could replicate? Would it offer interest? I strongly believe that this will go nowhere unless you spec out exactly what you want to accomplish. Just saying "we should make a better bank. Let's talk about it" won't progress much.

Agreed, I think it would make most sense to keep it really simple for now. So like a checking account at heart. No loans or anything like that. I think that's what most people would need - if you need a savings account you don't need an accessible online back.

So what does the bank do with all of this money that people deposit if they don't make loans.

From http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/banking/bank...: Banks accept deposits and make loans and derive a profit from the difference in the interest rates paid and charged, respectively.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#77
What do you mean by open source? Do you want the banks website to be open source, or all of the back office code that talks to ancient mainframes and proprietary 3rd party applications?

What will draw customers (other then fellow developers) to a bank with open source software?

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#78
I was just musing about this too (http://domitable.com/content/it-time-protocol-renaissance)

The enabling technology of the outcome you are after will likely be a protocol rather than a service, as a service only succeeds if it can outdo the competition, which leads to more fracturing rather than unity.

Just as HTTP enabled the document Web, the development of a Hyper Payment Transfer Protocol (or Hyperfunds Transfer Protocol, or something along those lines) could enable the financial Web.

Decentralizing transactions and capital is something Ripple and the various cryptocoins hope to achieve, so whether the protocol emerges along those lines or as something that doesn't require a peer-to-peer network, I don't know, only that it's a good conversation to be having right now.

Re: Ask HN: Sick of your bank? Want to build a open source, non-profit, online bank?

#79
> I'm not thinking of something like a credit union, rather something quite different

I'd guess from reading the comments that US-style credit unions are not common outside the US.

If you came up with a radical new banking product that has the characteristic of, say, reducing fee income, credit unions might be the best place to launch it. As you can see from other comments, transparency tools probably fit this category.

Generally, however, I think there is a lot of potential in organizations outside the "investor owned corporation" sphere. A co-op ISP, for example.

Anywhere there are perverse incentives for investor owned enterprises there is room for different structures.

Adding open source client software and high transparency in operations for a credit union could provide an incremental improvement over the basic idea of depositor-owned banks. But features like a "social investing profile' if that's what you are getting at, would be applicable to any bank's customers.

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