BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars • Hacker News Board

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#81

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:16 PM UTC

WiseWeasel wrote: post #40

ewoodrich wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the scare quotes on "safer"? If self-driving cars prove objectively to have fewer accidents and resulting injuries and deaths, wouldn't that just make them a superior technology? In that case, why shouldn't insurance charge more for traditional driving if self-driving were available on your car? That's just how insurance works, nothing new there.

A self-driving car system might be statistically safer than a human drivers in overall conditions, and still be prone to failure in an exceptional situation a particular driver wouldn't have been. If you have the potential to be that driver in that situation, I could understand feeling the scare quotes are warranted. Which percentile of the population does an automated system need to outperform to be safer rather tha…

The more interesting question might be the percentile where the auto-driver makes driving safer for everybody (by weeding out the worst drivers).

I would guess it is more like 15 or 20 than it is like 50 (but of course I'm guessing).

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#82

Post by snake_plissken » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:18 PM UTC

There is all this talk about safety but isn't drifting your car inherently dangerous? It's not like you're drifting your car around turns on your way to work. And if you are, you're a jackass and putting everyone else at risk.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#83

Post by wazoox » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:18 PM UTC

dcc1 wrote: post #16

This is bad news (despite being a BMW owner) In future driving will no longer be fun, if you want to drive "non-automated" car or disable "auto-pilot" your insurance company will automatically jack up your premium, since they would consider self driving cars "safer"

Driving cars for most people is only fun in ads, where people always enjoy empty streets, wide roads across beautiful wilderness, and the joy of utter freedom. Truth is that almost all of real life driving is a terrible chore, and "having fun" on the road generally means taking irresponsible risks for you and others.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#84

Post by taejo » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:21 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #76

So, as a cyclist that commutes to work everyday on my bike--are any of these manufacturers making sure that their vehicles don't squish pedestrians, or even worse, people on bikes?

Yes, of course they are. That's a major part of the challenge.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#85

Post by peterwwillis » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:27 PM UTC

stefan_kendall wrote: post #45

peterwwillis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this will be the case. Automated driving is only useful if you know where you're going. If you're on a leisurely ride through the country or are looking for a place with no address, you can't use automated navigation. So disabling it would be a necessity for a variety of driving purposes. As an aside, motorsport enthusiasts would be up in arms if they had to pay a premium just to be able to drive their…

Please stop "leisure driving". Traffic is a tremendous drain on my life as it is with superfluous cars on the road.

Please stop breathing. Carbon dioxide is a tremendous drain on the life of the planet as it is without your hot air added to it.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#86

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:30 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #46

aetherson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should expect that, assuming that self-driving cars are in fact safer, insurance rates will go down for people with self-driving cars, and remain the same for manual drivers.

They will go down for manual drivers, too. If you hit your brakes now, you get hit from behind. If the car behind you is a robot, it will come to a stop at 5cm from your car. Unless, of course, the manual drivers counteract by driving more dangerously. Why stop for a red traffic light if all other cars are driven by computer? Can you try and get an autonomous car to drive into a ditch by moving your car very close to…

It might work out better than you think in your last paragraph. Auto routed vehicles will reliably choose the 'main' route through an area (instead of whichever they feel is fastest), so segregated routing should work better (and with little additional physical infrastructure you can have one way rush hour streets and such).

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#87

Post by tmp123415 » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:30 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #76

So, as a cyclist that commutes to work everyday on my bike--are any of these manufacturers making sure that their vehicles don't squish pedestrians, or even worse, people on bikes?

They probably do since a collision might damage the car. And with all the sensors, there must not be a single blind spot left. That means it becomes much safer to ride a bicycle or motorcycle.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#88

Post by joosters » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:32 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #63

imgabe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to have fun, there will no doubt be private tracks where you can go and drive in a fun way. As someone who just gave up commuting about 1 traffic-laden hour each way, driving stopped being fun long, long ago. Too many of my commutes were made an unnecessary 50% or more longer because of drivers who were probably having a lot of fun until they caused an accident and backed up the road for everyone else.

At the same time, the entire continent is finally pushing back on that 1-hour commute. People are returning to cities, transit and infill and dense construction are becoming political issues, etc. Part of the impetus for this re-urbanization is the misery of commute. Beyond commuting woes, density is also more efficient for providing services and for environmental concerns. So I'm slightly worried that a move towards…

When did people leave cities then? Which cities were shrinking but now aren't?

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#89

Post by dockd » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:38 PM UTC

It would be nice if the auto manufacturers spent the effort on making their existing products better before they distract themselves with these projects.

Case in point? My car uses 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles (123K on the odometer) with a perfect maintenance record, and the manufacturer say this is Normal. Raise your hand if you like to stop in the middle of a family outing to pour a quart of oil into your car.

Or the power window motors that failed every 60K miles. Or the vinyl drivers seat that cracked to pieces. Or the traction control that engages on wet manhole covers. Or...

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#90

Post by theatraine » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 9:38 PM UTC

joosters wrote: post #88

Pxtl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, the entire continent is finally pushing back on that 1-hour commute. People are returning to cities, transit and infill and dense construction are becoming political issues, etc. Part of the impetus for this re-urbanization is the misery of commute. Beyond commuting woes, density is also more efficient for providing services and for environmental concerns. So I'm slightly worried that a move towards…

When did people leave cities then? Which cities were shrinking but now aren't?

This article gives a good overview in the USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_United_St...