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The Open-Office Trap

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Re: The Open-Office Trap

#81

Post by Dewie »

stephenhuey wrote: post #34
shijie wrote: post #3

Being in my late 20s and having only worked in open-office environments, the thought of having my own office seems archaic and counter-intuitive to productivity and communication. If I have my headphones in, I'm busy. If I don't, I can answer questions or talk to my colleagues about something. Projecting how I would feel in a "closed office" environment, I can honestly say I'd feel trapped and isolated. My experience…

So many people advise wearing headphones to signal being busy, but that doesn't seem like a good cue. I'm still going to stop and ask a question even if my colleague is listening to music.

Not to mention, the headphones are probably also for blocking out background noise, which you might not want even if you are fine with being talked to directly.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#82

Post by mattgreenrocks »

bane wrote: post #21
mrweasel wrote: post #12

This isn't really new, we known about issues regarding open office plan since the 1980s. I think it's mentioned in Peopleware at least. So why is it that companies keep building open office spaces? Are people really so focused on short term savings that they do not care that it will cost more in the long run?

What's really weird is that lots of the new, VC funded startups that should be really progressive about coddling employee needs are building these kinds of offices.

SV isn't interested in 'progression' or 'disruption,' only generating disproportionate returns for VCs.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#83

Post by a-priori »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #67
VLM wrote: post #36

If open plan offices actually worked, all academic facilities would install dozens of TVs each showing a different cable TV channel and volume turned up to distracting level in each study tank. Oh wait, places where people have to actually think are pin-drop silent? Really? You mean most calculus homework isn't done at frat keggers? The root of the problem is a management primate dominance fad; the mere grunt laborer…

Quite a bit of calculus homework is done at the frat house, the coffee shop, or other such places. Many people work best in situations other than total isolation and quiet. I'm not sure about the dominance thing either - most open office plans I've seen have no offices for anyone. At my last job the incoming CTO inherited the desk of a freelancer who left the week before.

Background noise and activity isn't all alike. In a coffee shop it's irrelevant: strangers moving about and talking about things that don't concern you. That's easier to tune out than things than the noise and activity in an open plan office where it's people you know moving about and talking about things that may be relevant to you.

Also, people are different -- some are better able to tune out background noise -- and the same person is different on different days and while doing different tasks.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#84

Post by [deleted] »

bane wrote: post #71
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do 1-3 people offices inhibit communication? I can't see it. You can also have a central or conference room for communications, or coffee corners connecting the offices. I think, Joel Spolsky has shown a real good example: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/BionicOffice.html His office does give both: Everybody can retreat, but also a huge area to communicate, live and exchange in community.

I think there are lots of quick and subtle communications that happen in a team while they're working. The quick "hey where did you check in the change for foo?" or "Let's do this task first, then the other tomorrow" or whatever, that happen in a team very quickly that I think happen better in a physical space then an IM chat or an email. Isolating a team from each other in separate spaces prevents that. But I can ap…

[deleted]

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#85

Post by johnward »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #45

Cubes are not cheap. Price them some time. The last time I saw figures, the were considerably more expensive than offices made of sheetrock and steel 2X4s plus modest desks. They do increase potential density of employees.

I find it hard to believe a cube with cardboard walls could be more expensive. Assuming that is true. What about the fact that you can jam 4 cubes into a single normal sized office space? You could probably get 8-10 in some VP level office. All of that space adds up in expensive real-estate. Open offices are purely about jamming as many people in a space as possible.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#86

Post by jleader »

VLM wrote: post #50
ArkyBeagle wrote: post #45

Cubes are not cheap. Price them some time. The last time I saw figures, the were considerably more expensive than offices made of sheetrock and steel 2X4s plus modest desks. They do increase potential density of employees.

This would imply you could make floor to chest height walls of sheetrock and studs even cheaper than cubes. I'm not seeing it. There is a long term savings in that reorgs of cubes means a couple hours for a couple guys with screwdrivers instead of week or so of carpenters / electricians / painters.

Reorgs of cubes are a couple hours IF you are using exactly the same numbers of each component (unlikely), or IF you can get additional parts compatible with the cubes you have. Every place I've worked that tried to reconfigure their cubes found that it was much more expensive and time-consuming than they'd expected. In one case the vendor had either gone under, or discontinued that model of cube components (I forget which). My current employer seems to have a small stockpile of extra cube components, so maybe they'll avoid this pitfall, we'll see.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#87

Post by waqf »

dpark wrote: post #19
Joeri wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separate offices for at most 3 or 4 people who need to cooperate closely, with doors that close. Using glass walls you can get the same spacious feeling as an open office without the noise.

Glass walls don't provide any feeling of privacy, which is one of the complaints employees typically have about open floor plans. If shared offices are used, I think they should have opaque walls and everyone should be able to position themselves such that they have a wall at their back. This leads to a feeling of privacy. And it actually encourages discussion among those sharing an office, as opposed to the more typ…

Frost the glass up to cubicle-wall height.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#88

Post by mindcrime »

sdepablos wrote: post #41
dpark wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass walls don't provide any feeling of privacy, which is one of the complaints employees typically have about open floor plans. If shared offices are used, I think they should have opaque walls and everyone should be able to position themselves such that they have a wall at their back. This leads to a feeling of privacy. And it actually encourages discussion among those sharing an office, as opposed to the more typ…

What is so important about privacy? You're supposed to be working, aren't you? I can totally understand privacy when you're dealing with sensitive date that shouldn't be seen by other people.

What is so important about privacy?

Human nature. It's not the "privacy" per-se, so much as the sense of security. Who wants to feel totally exposed at all times, especially in a situation where someone can easily walk up behind you? It sucks because it leaves us feeling vulnerable and unsafe.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#89

Post by johnward »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #33
Dewie wrote: post #22

I am a student who is not in the workforce. The biggest benefit for me when it comes to having a private room to study is that I can do light physical activity while I'm taking a break, which most often invigorates me. This is much more convenient, and a supplement to, "properly" working out by donning clothes to sweat in, perhaps going to the gym and the like. I can't really take these breaks when I'm around other p…

Of course, nobody wants to be a corporate drone. But the "hatred" is also based on scientific evidence. Programming and other creative jobs make it necessary, that the level of distraction is low. There might be differences in different people, some like music, others could also hear radio or the like. But everybody should be able to decide himself, how much distraction is acceptable for his task or his level of conc…

For some reason everyone in here hears "open office" and thinks "cube farm". There are open offices where you don't even have to privacy of a cube. I work in one. We have groups of 4 desks, two on each side facing each other, with some frosted glass in between. So you basically are in a 'cube' with 4 other people (since two people from the next group over are back to back with you).

I worked in cube farm and it's not really that much different but a completely open office is weird at first. Too much of a distraction for me so I prefer to work remote.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#90

Post by johnward »

jleader wrote: post #86
VLM wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would imply you could make floor to chest height walls of sheetrock and studs even cheaper than cubes. I'm not seeing it. There is a long term savings in that reorgs of cubes means a couple hours for a couple guys with screwdrivers instead of week or so of carpenters / electricians / painters.

Reorgs of cubes are a couple hours IF you are using exactly the same numbers of each component (unlikely), or IF you can get additional parts compatible with the cubes you have. Every place I've worked that tried to reconfigure their cubes found that it was much more expensive and time-consuming than they'd expected. In one case the vendor had either gone under, or discontinued that model of cube components (I forget…

When I worked for FedEx there was a specified amount of space you would get based on your job title. So when the guy next to me was promoted to something that is like a technical fellow they expanded his cube 2 feet. This makes the next cube over unusable so they just stuck a cabinet in it. When a senior manager was promoted to VP they took down a wall and moved it out 2-3 feet and rebuilt it and put in all kinds of expensive furniture...
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