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The Open-Office Trap

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Re: The Open-Office Trap

#51

Post by Florin_Andrei »

VLM wrote: post #36

If open plan offices actually worked, all academic facilities would install dozens of TVs each showing a different cable TV channel and volume turned up to distracting level in each study tank. Oh wait, places where people have to actually think are pin-drop silent? Really? You mean most calculus homework isn't done at frat keggers? The root of the problem is a management primate dominance fad; the mere grunt laborer…

Being in a dominant position increases testosterone production, which then promotes a feeling of well-being and energy.

It literally feels good to keep other people down.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#52

Post by Florin_Andrei »

owenmarshall wrote: post #29
VLM wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of psychological territoriality. Still unhappy, but better. Oh if only I had a job where my boss thought I was important enough that I could have a picture of my kids in my cube, you know, a Real job. Also I've seen this tried and inevitably rules have to be put in place because no one wants to sit in the big room and everyone wants to sit in the cubes to do work. So you get people arguing about who's work is im…

>Also I've seen this tried and inevitably rules have to be put in place because no one wants to sit in the big room and everyone wants to sit in the cubes to do work. So you get people arguing about who's work is important enough to require the cubes. Which is not terribly motivating to people demoted to working sullenly, silently, in the big room. Bingo. The next time you see an open floor plan office, look at the '…

> Unfortunately it's also the most expensive solution.

Is it more or less expensive than CEO bonuses? Serious question.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#53

Post by theandrewbailey »

I occasionally thank God that my office is a cubicle-free (but walled) environment. My workplace is in a former mansion converted into office space, and I have 2 other programmers in the room with me; likewise with the designers. We may or may not be all working on the same thing. Sometimes discussion/clarification on some topic helps everyone, otherwise we keep quiet, have a door, thermostat, and light switch.

At my first job, I remember setting an ultimatum on waiting for 3 conversations (DBAs, team lead, QA) around me to end so I would have some silence. The line was crossed, so I asked my manager and thankfully, he let me work from home for the rest of the day, and I got all assignments done that day.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#54

Post by owenmarshall »

VLM wrote: post #47
owenmarshall wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also I've seen this tried and inevitably rules have to be put in place because no one wants to sit in the big room and everyone wants to sit in the cubes to do work. So you get people arguing about who's work is important enough to require the cubes. Which is not terribly motivating to people demoted to working sullenly, silently, in the big room. Bingo. The next time you see an open floor plan office, look at the '…

Work at home / coffee shop / park is a pretty cheap option. Give the boss an enormous office big enough to hold the whole team at some discomfort, but its only used for team meetings or the occasional (rare) large team effort. Head down grinding is done at home or somewhere else. Also sub-team meetings often happen at a coffee shop. Three dudes at starbucks not the whole dept or whatever. I've also seen people workin…

Those are all very decent options as well. The better companies I've worked at understand that programming is neither 100% solo work or 100% collaboration, and trust me to chose accordingly. This means some days I'd come in to work and spend time planning/brainstorming with the team, and other times I wouldn't come in at all because I was grinding away.

Thinking back, those were also the companies that didn't force me into a giant open floor plan with a ton of other people... the ones that did tended to be much more focused around "cars in the parking lot by 8:30, butts in the chairs until 5".

Open floor plan as predictor of quality?

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#55

Post by dpark »

AlisdairSH wrote: post #40
dpark wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cubes still suck. They have most of the same noise issues as open floor plans. Assholes on speakerphone conference calls... Also your plan requires that everyone work primarily on laptops (unless you expect to lug your desktop and monitors to a cube when you need to concentrate). And you've basically allocated double the space (cubes for half the team plus a room big enough for the whole team). Why not just cut the s…

Does anybody work for a software company that doesn't issue laptops as the primary PC? I haven't had a desktop in 10 years and just assumed that was the norm.

Microsoft, Google, and Yahoo all provide a desktop and two monitors (or one 30" one), or did the last time I worked for or interviewed at these companies. They might also provide laptops, but they aren't the primary device for dev work. I seem to recall the same for Amazon, but am not certain.

I actually don't understand this belief that a laptop should be the primary device given the body of research that shows the usefulness of multiple large monitors (unless you're just docking the laptop).

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#56

Post by Florin_Andrei »

bane wrote: post #21
mrweasel wrote: post #12

This isn't really new, we known about issues regarding open office plan since the 1980s. I think it's mentioned in Peopleware at least. So why is it that companies keep building open office spaces? Are people really so focused on short term savings that they do not care that it will cost more in the long run?

What's really weird is that lots of the new, VC funded startups that should be really progressive about coddling employee needs are building these kinds of offices.

Dominance.

If the higher-ups have their own offices, whereas the plebes are amassed in the sweatshop, it gives the former a sense of dominance. It increases testosterone production, which makes them feel better, stronger, more energetic.

It's very hard to change something in a place if it makes the decision-makers feel really good.

"Rational actors" my ass. We are all a bunch of chimpanzees.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#57

Post by dpark »

bluedino wrote: post #39
dpark wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cubes still suck. They have most of the same noise issues as open floor plans. Assholes on speakerphone conference calls... Also your plan requires that everyone work primarily on laptops (unless you expect to lug your desktop and monitors to a cube when you need to concentrate). And you've basically allocated double the space (cubes for half the team plus a room big enough for the whole team). Why not just cut the s…

>> Also your plan requires that everyone work primarily on laptops That's not a bad idea either way. Then you take your computer home if you want to work from home, or after hours.

Only if you have a laptop that's beefy enough to replace a desktop and you also have monitors to connect it to when you're at work. A single 13" screen is decidedly nonoptimal.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#58

Post by VLM »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #49
bane wrote: post #17

I've written here quite a bit about my basic hatred for open offices. My personal opinion is that open offices are masked in lots of terms about "information flow" and "collaboration" when the reality is that it's about companies being cheap. I also went to a high school built originally on a completely open plan. At some point they realized teachers shouting over each other didn't work, or the teacher next door givi…

I've always wondered what would happen if I told management "you guys made us work in a Dickensian sweatshop floor plan? Okay, how about I bring my own cubicle from home, and install it around my place here? I'm pretty good with DIY projects, you guys don't have to spend anything, I'll just fix the problem on my own. I'll paint it in the corporate colors and all, don't you worry."

Going a little too far. Just ask to install a TV. After all, noise and distraction are supposed to be good, right?

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#59

Post by Nicholas_C »

bane wrote: post #21
mrweasel wrote: post #12

This isn't really new, we known about issues regarding open office plan since the 1980s. I think it's mentioned in Peopleware at least. So why is it that companies keep building open office spaces? Are people really so focused on short term savings that they do not care that it will cost more in the long run?

What's really weird is that lots of the new, VC funded startups that should be really progressive about coddling employee needs are building these kinds of offices.

Showing a picture of iProduct lined desks with young people staring intently into their screens looks a lot cooler and trendy than a picture of a hallway with closed doors I guess.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#60

Post by Florin_Andrei »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #45

Cubes are not cheap. Price them some time. The last time I saw figures, the were considerably more expensive than offices made of sheetrock and steel 2X4s plus modest desks. They do increase potential density of employees.

I'll make my own cube. Hell, I'll make my own closed office. I'm awesome at DIY projects. I'll paint it nice and everything.
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