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Amusing ourselves to death

onthepathofknowledge.wordpress.com

101–110 of 126 posts

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#101
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I have answered your question in my own mind many times. I want to live in a world where there is true freedom. I want a purer form of capitalism with heavy reductions in current government control that inhibits the ability of us all to do things today. I want them to live in a world where the very concept that one person or group of people enforces control over others is both alien and absurd, and certainly…

> I want them to live in a world where the very concept that one person or group of people enforces control over others is both alien and absurd, I'll bite. How exactly is your "freer version" of capitalism going to achieve this, where, by default, a group of stockholders, managers and producers will have tremendous influence on availability, pricing, selection and stock, whereas no safeguards exist against abuse of…

Freer capitalism will maximise choice relative to alternatives. You are correct in saying it will not provide complete choice, for example I don't expect there will ever be a day - even if I had all the money in the world - where I could pay every last person on the planet to chant my name at once. Some things despite being physically possible will always be unattainable. Capitalism maximises the set of choices.

You are not beholden to company executives - you simply stop giving them your attention and money. Only in the case of monopoly and oligopoly can you be at the mercy of executives. Such problems are very real and the solutions much more difficult than those imposed by governments and moral crusaders, but they are necessarily worsened by the same. The reason we - at least in Europe - have a horrible banking industry is because the regulation around starting and running a bank is so complex it has the effect of restricting bank ownership to a very small subset of the population. The same is true for the insurance industries and many others. In the case of banking bail-outs mean that no matter how badly a bank is run, it will never go out of business (in Europe anyway). This is truly absurd, extremely damaging, and 100% the fault of people with moral agendas trying to force it upon the rest of us. You could own a bank, I'd love to consider you for my next account, but the incumbents won't allow that. I am beholden to shitty bankers because of the government.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#102
Seeing this Brave New World thing pop up again. OMG sheeple wake up! People have become passive, drowned in irrelevance!

I find this line of discourse dehumanizing. "People" apparently includes everyone but the reader. Some would claim this is the conceit of such critique, a claim that only the reader sees the world for what it really is, the reader (and writer) are better than everyone else. But this kind of critique has gone on too long for me to feel this way – instead I think these critiques erase the reader, erase the idea of constructive engagement, they don't say "you, reader, are the smart one!" instead they say "you are stupid and purposeless, not even worthy of critique, instead I shall turn my eye to only the unnamed masses!"

People need to stop talking about "people". Neil Postman should stop talking about "people". Have the guts to say who you are talking about. Or if more likely you are only talking about archetypes, step up and acknowledge the universal inapplicability of archetypes to real people, each of whom is better than your out-of-focus description. When you multiple out individuals into a group you don't get a teaming mass – maybe YOU can only appreciate those individuals as a teaming mass, but don't project the limits of your perception onto those individuals. Life is bigger than any one goddamned sci-fi story.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#104
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A paternalistic intervention [...] might well result in people living lives they were happier with than the lives they would have chosen for themselves The problem with this argument is that it assumes that the pater making the decisions is wiser and more able to make correct decisions for others than others themselves. In a utopia, the decision maker might be the smartest, wisest person alive, with a nigh god-like…

> in democracies like the US and UK -- where potential leaders seem to primarily be chosen solely on the basis of social class (when did you last see a genuinely lower class politico?) -- there is absolutely no reason to believe that the leader has cognitive abilities that are above those of the population. The upper classes generally seem to have a lower time preference than "average joe", which is an encouraging fa…

> In recent years I've seen what feels like a dumbing down of e.g. the Proms - indeed, of the whole BBC

I can't argue whether this is the case or not, because I rarely watch TV. I've heard that BBC4 is quite cerebral, but I've also heard no-one watches it, yet I'm pretty sure this means that no-one would watch its contents even if they were the sole thing on the television. It seems that most people don't find cerebral activities fun.

I went to your typical rough, inner-city, London comprehensive, and saw precisely the 'bottom 55%' being debated here on a daily basis. It certainly seemed to me that these people would never have been interested in cerebral activities even if they would have been offered. Whenever a cerebral activity (e.g., reading Lord of the Flies) presented itself, they diverted across to violence, or gossip, or some other form of utter rejection of the cerebral activity on offer.

I have no reason to believe that it'd be possible -- or indeed positive -- to force these people to play up to the interests of their social 'betters'. I'd rather we accept who they are than demand they play the role of poseur. Like with everything else in life, I'm sure that the place to intercept this problem -- the issue of people wasting their life on entertainment -- is in childhood. One clear consistency among the lower classes I grew up with was that their parents either didn't give a damn about their kids (sadly the case for a huge number of them), or were too busy with the demands of being a single parent to dedicate time to raising them.

If we want a civilization which is more interested in learning and self-improvement than X-Factor, then we'll have to start with making sure that our civilization's parents are willing and able to emphasize learning and self-improvement over X-Factor.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#105
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's this? There's a difference between what we want and what we enjoy. You see this most clearly in drug addicts - no, in compulsive gamblers: they desperately want their fix, but aren't any happier when they're doing it. But the same effect is in play for all of us, in more subtle form. You can find it in people who are trying to write: they enjoy writing, but they don't want to do it, have to force themselves to…

> A paternalistic intervention [...] might well result in people living lives they were happier with than the lives they would have chosen for themselves The problem with this argument is that it assumes that the pater making the decisions is wiser and more able to make correct decisions for others than others themselves. In a utopia, the decision maker might be the smartest, wisest person alive, with a nigh god-like…

Not sure the pater agent needs to be wiser, not even seen as wiser, more the result of some people psychology not willing to take decisions and happy this way (butler mentality) meanwhile others want/need this position to feel fulfilled.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#107

I don't think it's off-base to say that this is an attack on the current state of society - the oft-repeated wail that capitalism and the opportunities it has brought (including technology) has made us all a despicable group of hedonistic thrill seekers. This is universally construed as a bad thing. I have problems with this. In order to decide that something is bad, we need to have an idea of what is good. Where doe…

The whole point of Huxley's view was that all these hedonistic tendencies you describe can be used to control people, to box them into tiny little worlds of their own making and keep them safely there, no threat to the ruling powers. If you are only focused on how happy these people (or even everyone) are, then you are missing the point.

1984 assumed a certain amount of inherent human dignity in each person, and described a world where that human dignity had been stripped away by an all-knowing oppressive power. Huxley envisioned a world in which people are little more than animals and anything that could be called human dignity was rare. How happy the cattle are in their pastures is not what Huxley cared about.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#108
I've seen this cartoon before, and honestly I think people are trying to pick either or (1984 or Brave New World), and are missing the more nuanced side of it.

My simplified summary though, is this: Brave New World for the masses, and 1984 for anyone who wakes up and tries to change it.

Also, that people talk about both authors works but neglect to discuss their British secret and not-so-secret society connections seems to create a sort of superficial aura of debate around the two. Frankly, the books only scratch the surface, but TPTB have done an excellent job at making any even potential association with the title "conspiracy theorist" a thing to be feared. (and plenty of the theorists themselves have helped in that cause)

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A paternalistic intervention [...] might well result in people living lives they were happier with than the lives they would have chosen for themselves The problem with this argument is that it assumes that the pater making the decisions is wiser and more able to make correct decisions for others than others themselves. In a utopia, the decision maker might be the smartest, wisest person alive, with a nigh god-like…

>in democracies like the US and UK -- where potential leaders seem to primarily be chosen solely on the basis of social class Maybe that is true in the UK, but that is clearly not the case in the US, unless you are going to try to argue that Obama is a WASP.

For much of the US's history many states had wealth and/or land requirements for holding office.

Obama is as White/Anglo-Saxon as he is African (as if these terms have any meaning at all) via his mother, and he is ostensibly a protestant.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#110
post #71

I don't think it's off-base to say that this is an attack on the current state of society - the oft-repeated wail that capitalism and the opportunities it has brought (including technology) has made us all a despicable group of hedonistic thrill seekers. This is universally construed as a bad thing. I have problems with this. In order to decide that something is bad, we need to have an idea of what is good. Where doe…

How's this? There's a difference between what we want and what we enjoy. You see this most clearly in drug addicts - no, in compulsive gamblers: they desperately want their fix, but aren't any happier when they're doing it. But the same effect is in play for all of us, in more subtle form. You can find it in people who are trying to write: they enjoy writing, but they don't want to do it, have to force themselves to…

Boo on that social science study. It doesn't offer any illumination as to why people made that choice - or, if it did, you haven't included it. Instead, you're using it as evidence that people can't act in their own interests. Can you really draw that conclusion?

Boo on social science in general.

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