Get Facebook WiFi for your business • Hacker News Board

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#241

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 5:17 AM UTC

waps wrote: post #239

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it can have a massive impact, but it's "just a social network"? How do you know the massive impact is going to be positive, and otherwise it's "just a social network"? North Korea is also a social network, BTW, and it doesn't give you cancer either, nor does it cause massive floods. Yeah, somewhat unfair way of framing it, isn't it? But then so is bringing up (somewhat) unpreventable illnesses and natural disaste…

I don't get that you want free wifi without being prepared to jump through a small hoop. Delivering that service is not free, so requiring you to do a little work for it, or pay (e.g. to verizon who'll happily provide data connectivity), is not unreasonable. I love how you first complain about dictatorial regimes, then proceed to declare that "society should probably try to get rid of Facebook, at least the way it cu…

Erm, it might not have been obvious, but let me point out that I actually didn't threaten to kill anyone if you don't abandon facebook immediately.

I mean, seriously, you can't see the difference between advocating a certain view using supporting arguments and threatening people who don't do as you demand?

People calling for society to get rid of nuclear weapons are essentially the same thing as people who would want to kill anyone who has premarital sex because they both put forward a world view that others don't happen to agree with?

I'll answer the first part of your post once you have explained how to understand the second part.

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#242

Post by jigneshg » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 5:19 AM UTC

This is amazing news for both, customer and small businesses. Both can get benefited from this service.

I always do check-in when i visit local store and also publish my review. This will help my friends to know about such local stores and also help business owners to find new customers !

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#243

Post by rsync » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 5:26 AM UTC

bertil wrote: post #238

carlob wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, said ice cream shop had a fully open wifi before going through the hassle of creating the captive portal by themselves two years ago. The thing that really irks me is the assumption that nowadays everyone has facebook. Isn't it surprising that in a country that finds national IDs liberticide the problem of identifying people is being outsourced to a corporate monopoly?

It's pretty much the definition of fascism (corporations assuming Regalian tasks) and the main motivation behind my PhD — so yes, it’s freaky. But it shouldn’t be surprising, not as a first step. Decades after widespread e-mail and web use, very little progress has been made to improve identity and relation representation with a usable design outside of Facebook and its competitors (currently: LinkedIn, twitter; and…

"It's pretty much the definition of fascism (corporations assuming Regalian tasks)"

No, it's not. Fascism has an actual meaning and it's not simply "bad people doing things I think are terrible".

"Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation and asserts that stronger nations have the right to expand their territory by displacing weaker nations."[1]

All fascists are hyper-authoritarian, yes, but not all hyper-authoritarians are fascists.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#244

Post by chasing » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 5:43 AM UTC

bertil wrote: post #238

carlob wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, said ice cream shop had a fully open wifi before going through the hassle of creating the captive portal by themselves two years ago. The thing that really irks me is the assumption that nowadays everyone has facebook. Isn't it surprising that in a country that finds national IDs liberticide the problem of identifying people is being outsourced to a corporate monopoly?

It's pretty much the definition of fascism (corporations assuming Regalian tasks) and the main motivation behind my PhD — so yes, it’s freaky. But it shouldn’t be surprising, not as a first step. Decades after widespread e-mail and web use, very little progress has been made to improve identity and relation representation with a usable design outside of Facebook and its competitors (currently: LinkedIn, twitter; and…

> It's pretty much the definition of fascism...

I looked it up, and you're right!

---

fascism

noun

1. requiring people to have a Facebook account to access a free public wi-fi hotspot so they can keep up on Reddit while they eat their fudge brownie ice cream.

2. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#245

Post by chasing » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 5:44 AM UTC

carlob wrote: post #109

Real conversation happened to me in an ice cream shop with a home-brewed facebook captive portal in Cambridge, MA. me: Excuse me, is there a way to log into the wifi if you don't have a facebook account? clerk: No, we've had a lots people doing illegal stuff on our wifi, so we need to verify their identity. me: I understand, however I don't have a facebook account. Would you like to verify my identity with a photo id…

I bet they wouldn't even let you pay with Bitcoin!

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#246

Post by interpol_p » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:00 AM UTC

carlob wrote: post #109

Real conversation happened to me in an ice cream shop with a home-brewed facebook captive portal in Cambridge, MA. me: Excuse me, is there a way to log into the wifi if you don't have a facebook account? clerk: No, we've had a lots people doing illegal stuff on our wifi, so we need to verify their identity. me: I understand, however I don't have a facebook account. Would you like to verify my identity with a photo id…

I have a Facebook account that I barely ever use, and I would not use it to access free WiFi.

That said, I can only side with the ice cream shop salesperson in your anecdote. Just make a Facebook account with a fake name, use it when you want to.

You seem more angry about the requirement of a Facebook account than not being able to use the free WiFi. But the fact is: if your goal is to use their free WiFi, you can do so without giving up your privacy (fake account).

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#247

Post by interpol_p » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:04 AM UTC

sbt wrote: post #197

carlob wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, said ice cream shop had a fully open wifi before going through the hassle of creating the captive portal by themselves two years ago. The thing that really irks me is the assumption that nowadays everyone has facebook. Isn't it surprising that in a country that finds national IDs liberticide the problem of identifying people is being outsourced to a corporate monopoly?

> Isn't it surprising that in a country that finds national IDs liberticide the problem of identifying people is being outsourced to a corporate monopoly? This was the core of the problem during all the Snowden leaks last year; A fraction of the population recognized how serious it was, but for the vast majority it just didn't compute. This terrifies me and I fear that we may have to see an entire generation before s…

But what if the vast majority of the population is right?

What if there are no detrimental long term effects to our society when our digital privacy is compromised? What if the majority of the population ignoring the risks and simply being productive in the areas they work best is the best thing for society?

I'm not arguing this point of view, but I think risks are often be exaggerated by the security conscious.

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#248

Post by interpol_p » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:11 AM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #204

mgkimsal wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is it's useful enough for many situations.

No, it's really not. Its very simple to create a fake FB account, all you need is an email. Relying on FB login is a really stupid way to try to verify identity - why not just use emails if they want some minimum bar for registration? FB is no more useful, ubiquitous, or reliable. I see the attraction for FB in this though; they're desperately trying to come up with ways to avoid becoming the next geocities or myspac…

But it really is good enough for the business offering WiFi.

If Facebook validation causes 90% of their visitors to simply hit the "sign in" button on their default Facebook account, they have probably reduced a significant amount of bad behaviour on their network.

The fact is the vast majority of people are already connected to Facebook under their real names on their mobile device at all times. Taking advantage of that (minimum security through "ease of use") is a good idea.

The person who goes to the store and uses a fake Facebook account to use their free WiFi maliciously is almost non-existent. People will just take the path of least resistance to get what they want now.

Stop thinking of their security in terms of how to circumvent it — that's easy — think of security in terms of which path most users will flow along. Then look at the tradeoffs of increased security to handle the remaining users, you generally find it's not worth bothering with them.

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#249

Post by interpol_p » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:17 AM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #140

weixiyen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's more satisfying to be a jerk towards someone who can do nothing about the situation, under the guise of principle.

How was that exchange with the clerk 'being a jerk'?

Asking the clerk to verify the photo ID in place of a Facebook account was a bit strange.

You'd probably have an inkling that their authentication is based on Facebook, so the photo ID thing is highly unlikely to work. (It seemed to be said more to counter the clerk's statement of not being able to validate users than a proposal of a real solution).

The clerk actually provided a real, practical solution (fake account) that the author does not seem to think very highly of.

Re: Get Facebook WiFi for your business

#250

Post by interpol_p » Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 6:22 AM UTC

mononcqc wrote: post #147

joeblau wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The clerk must not be familiar with Facebook's "Real Name" policy. I think that asking a store clerk is probably never going to get you anywhere though. They are the least likely people to be involved with technical decisions. That's something that would be better taken up with the business owner. What's sad is that the business owner would probably be willing to sacrifice your business for the perceived benefit that…

The irony is rather that the excuse they provide is that they want to verify people's identity to prevent abuse, but then openly recommend using a fake identity to log on.

But the thing is authenticating through Facebook probably does verify the vast majority of their customers' identities.

Even if they put big signs out the front of their shop saying : "You can make a fake account and use our WiFi if you care about your privacy." Most people would not go through the trouble of making a fake account and just login with their real account.

The fact that the clerk was in conversation with this guy probably put him in the "non troublemaker" category in the clerk's mind anyway. And thus the whole identity verification thing was irrelevant, he was just suggesting a practical solution to the customer's problem.