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Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

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Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#131

Post by jasonlotito »

Sidis wrote: post #118
jasonlotito wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace DO with AWS and the Googler with Jeff Bezos, and the blog format with the NYTimes.

...and it wouldn't make any difference. If the NY Times signed an agreement with AWS that stated that they couldn't do X against anyone and, at a later date, they did X against Jeff Bezos then AWS would be well within their rights to demand that either NYT adhere to their agreement or leave. I note that you use the example of two related entities (AWS and Jeff Bezos). Are you implying that there is a relationship bet…

No one is suggesting DO shouldn't enforce their ToS. Rather, it's their ToS that is at issue. The use of AWS and NYTimes was too look at it another way. Everything the NYTimes prints would fall afoul of the ruling from DO.

More importantly, NYTimes wouldn't agree to such a stipulation from their provider precisely because of an issue like this. That should be a warning sign.

As for the use of Jeff Bezos, it was because I had mentioned AWS. Replace Bezos with anyone. It was merely the first name that popped into my head.

Here, I'll make it easy: AWS is the hosting provider, NYTimes is the site, and a member of the NSA is mentioned in the article.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#132

Post by macspoofing »

jasonlotito wrote: post #110
macspoofing wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Post something someone doesn't like, despite it being true? It can be removed. Which service would allow you to just post anything you like?

Outside of things like child porn and other blatantly illegal things, there are lots of hosting providers that allow you to post things others may not like. Basically, it's as if Amazon threatened someone's account on AWS because someone posted an article about something Jeff Bezos actually said.

I've used this example above, but requesting he remove identifying information from the post is a prudent and reasonable request. Reddit, for example, had major issues with vigilante groups forming after some inflammatory posting which also named some private individuals. More often than not, it led to innocent people being harassed. I've just re-read the original post, and it's a total personal attack against a private individual for no good reason. What's he trying to do? Embarrass him? Get him fired? Why target some random Google employee for a semi-controversial opinion. What's his motivation?!

>Basically, it's as if Amazon threatened someone's account on AWS because someone posted an article about something Jeff Bezos actually said.

Jeff Bezos is the founder, CEO and the public face of one of the biggest corporations in the world. This Googler is not Jeff Bezos. He's just a developer, one of thousands at Google. There is a difference here.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#133

Post by macspoofing »

Sidis wrote: post #122

So, let's be clear: 1. The blogger signed up with DO and agreed to some TOS that prohibit certain types of activities. 2. He then, by his own admission, lurks in a chatroom. 3. He asks a Googler a question but does not disclose what he intends to do with it. By his own admission, he had no plans to write a piece. 4. He takes the Googler's comments, contorts them, and constructs a poorly written screed in which he, am…

Exactly. What's this bully's motivation? Does he want this Googler to be fired? To be disciplined at work? To apologize publicly? Or simply to embarrass him publicly and move on to something else?

I don't know anything about DO, but it aggravates me that they are being disparaged here when all they did was make a reasonable request.

Most services frown upon posting identifying information in certain kinds of stories. Reddit, for example, had issues with vigilantism against innocent people after certain inflammatory posts.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#134

Post by DanBC »

DO are not unusual in having AUP/TOS that is more restrictive than the law allows.

A number of people here are saying that they feel uncomfortable with DO's stance, but plenty of other providers would come close to that level of policing.

Luckily there are options if you want someone to just host stuff with tolerant AUP/TOS.

Tldr: contracts mean stuff.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#135

Post by blueskin_ »

nobodyshere wrote: post #117
andrewfong wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TOSes are what they are, but at least Rackspace's TOS doesn't prohibit acts that "embarrass" someone.

However a lawsuit against them would. And it is very logical to try and avoid having such a lawsuit as you'd have to spend quite a few bucks on a decent lawyer.

If someone sued rackspace for that, chances are they'd get ignored. They're too big to bother with frivolous threats that would be thrown out immediately.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#136

Post by andrewfong »

macspoofing wrote: post #127
andrewfong wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no interest in fighting with my hosting provider in addition to everything else This is really the issue here. The hosting provider should err on the side of its customers as opposed to random third parties. There are a lot of edge cases on what can or should be legally hosted. The hosting provider may have the legal right to take down controversial content, but it's an absolutely cowardly thing to do. The f…

>The hosting provider should err on the side of its customers as opposed to random third parties. Maybe they do. This is a fairly clear case of online harassment. The guy acted like bully and it shows in his post. All they wanted from him was to remove references to his name. This is fairly standard - for example, Reddit frowns upon identifying people in certain stories because they had issues with vigilante mobs for…

As someone who spent a non-trivial part of my childhood being bullied, I wouldn't call this bullying. It seems more in line with public shaming than anything else.

At any rate, bullying generally isn't illegal. Neither is naming names. In order to be legally actionable, harassment usually has to get to the point where there's some threat of violence or some pattern of behavior. As far as I can tell, there has been exactly one blog post about this guy (two if you include the post about DO) about some conversations in a chat room that's open to the public. That's not harassment. Were it otherwise, every blog that mentioned Justine Sacco should have been taken down.

Reddit is a community with its own social norms. I have no issue with Reddit policing itself in a manner to create an environment welcoming to others. But DO is a service provider! They may have the legal right to do so, but I don't expect them to be making value judgments about my (lawful) expression, anymore than I expect Comcast or Gmail to.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#137

Post by hect0r »

farginay wrote: post #43

Freedom of press is guaranteed only to those who own one. -- A. J. Liebling

Freedom of press and freedom of speech are complete red herrings here.

DO is a private company and they are free to agree to whatever they want in their contracts. They don't owe anyone any obligation other than to adhere to the agreements they form with their customers.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#138

Post by nobodyshere »

blueskin_ wrote: post #135
nobodyshere wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However a lawsuit against them would. And it is very logical to try and avoid having such a lawsuit as you'd have to spend quite a few bucks on a decent lawyer.

If someone sued rackspace for that, chances are they'd get ignored. They're too big to bother with frivolous threats that would be thrown out immediately.

I wouldn't say you can so easily throw away a court order.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#139

Post by lvh »

MaxGabriel wrote: post #19
lvh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the two of you are only disagreeing on what "liberal" means; it tends to mean something quite different in Europe than in the US :)

They said they're both European

Sure, but Europeans are quite capable of using a term differently if they believe that's what their audience expects; and most people on HN are probably still USA-ian ;-)

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#140

Post by lvh »

nknighthb wrote: post #112
jacques_chester wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DigitalOcean can cancel the contract once others found the blog post to be defamatory. Well ... that's what's happening. It's not "policing content", it's holding up their side of the contract.

I see this sort of non-argument on HN a lot. Why do you believe that just because someone has the right to do something, that changes its nature? I have the right in the US to walk down the street shouting racist slogans. If I did so, should I be immune from criticism because it's within my rights? Is one magically not-racist just because the law says racist behavior is legal?

No-one's saying you should be immune from criticism, surely? FWIW: yes, you should totally be able to say whatever you want, even if it's bigoted, flat-out wrong, outdated, whatever; as long as I'm free to say that it's dumb and bigoted, flat-out wrong, outdated, whatever ;)
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