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Rap Genius is Back on Google

news.rapgenius.com

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Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#81
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone clarify for me, again, what is so special about Rap Genius? It's just a bunch of stupid rap lyrics. So what? In fact, how are they not being sued for copyright by the owners of all the lyrics they're posting, anyway? I run across Rap Genius now and then and have always considered it to be spam, just like yahoo answers, ehow, and mahalo pages.

If you think Rap Genius is stupid try using any other lyrics site. That's what is so special about it. Is anyone else getting more and more suspicious of the scorn that people have been gratuitously heaping on RG? Like, did they run over everyone's dog?

I actually avoid using them because the design is hard on the eyes and I find the way they present annotations to be annoying. I don't think there's anything special about them at all, especially when you consider that the idea is completely unoriginal.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#82
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much so. Google's decisions are starting to have impacts on other companies' bottom lines which easily run into the millions of dollars. Just as a thought experiment ... how tempting do you think it would be for Google to do the following: 1) Run a query to identify all companies that cut their AdWords spending over 50% over the last year. 2) Look at which of these companies are now getting significant numbers o…

>Apart from evidence that seems to be pointing towards this already happening; Please provide this evidence. I am getting a bit tired of this misinformation. Organic search and paid search are silo'd. To say that Google favors advertisers in the organic results or the other way round, is simply not true. It would destroy Google's credibility. >how tempting do you think it would be for Google It approaches conspiracy…

> Their rules are very clear and succinct.

If I think of a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that valuable content or are those doorway pages?

If I give when someone few months of my service for free when they write a nice article with a link to my site... is that good customer service or a link scheme?

If I create a press release on PR Web and link to my service with an appropriate keyword ... is that participating in a link scheme?

None of these cases are all that clear cut and I for one am not comfortable with Google being the judge, jury and executioner.

> It approaches conspiracy thinking.

That's not the point. The point is that Google is a massive company wielding massive power.

When it comes to fighting a penalization their position is that they don't need to defend their decisions, implying that they can be trusted not to abuse their position and hence deserve to have the final say, legally, over these decisions.

I don't buy that and think it's about time that contesting Google penalties in court becomes a regular thing.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#83
I am sure they went through many sleepless nights during the holidays. Hella sucks. I think Google is doing the right thing and I am sure not just related to seo that rap genius learned a lot about themselves and will become stronger... as well will the overall tech community.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#84
what does not make sense to me is that after removing all the back-linked urls, should not that drop Rap Genius's overall ranking even lower than before, since the artificial boosting has been removed. Why they are back on the top. googling "lyrics", RP is number #6 in the first page. I think RP has received special treatment here. Google search team needs to clarify this.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#85
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much so. Google's decisions are starting to have impacts on other companies' bottom lines which easily run into the millions of dollars. Just as a thought experiment ... how tempting do you think it would be for Google to do the following: 1) Run a query to identify all companies that cut their AdWords spending over 50% over the last year. 2) Look at which of these companies are now getting significant numbers o…

>Apart from evidence that seems to be pointing towards this already happening; Please provide this evidence. I am getting a bit tired of this misinformation. Organic search and paid search are silo'd. To say that Google favors advertisers in the organic results or the other way round, is simply not true. It would destroy Google's credibility. >how tempting do you think it would be for Google It approaches conspiracy…

> Organic search and paid search are silo'd.

According to who? Google? Is there any transparency or any way for an outsider to verify that?

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#86
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apart from evidence that seems to be pointing towards this already happening; Please provide this evidence. I am getting a bit tired of this misinformation. Organic search and paid search are silo'd. To say that Google favors advertisers in the organic results or the other way round, is simply not true. It would destroy Google's credibility. >how tempting do you think it would be for Google It approaches conspiracy…

> Their rules are very clear and succinct. If I think of a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that valuable content or are those doorway pages? If I give when someone few months of my service for free when they write a nice article with a link to my site... is that good customer service or a link scheme? If I create a press release on…

> If I think of a a lot of things my users would search for and try to create valuable information for them concerning those queries... is that great content or are those doorway pages?

  Create a useful, information-rich site, and write pages 
  that clearly and accurately describe your content.
  
  Think about the words users would type to find your pages,
  and make sure that your site actually includes those words
  within it.

  Doorway pages are typically large sets of poor-quality 
  pages where each page is optimized for a specific keyword
  or phrase.

  Some examples of doorways include:

  Having multiple domain names targeted at specific regions
  or cities that funnel users to one page
 
  Templated pages made solely for affiliate linking
  
  Multiple pages on your site with similar content designed
  to rank for specific queries like city or state names
>If when someone writes a nice article with a link to my site I give them a a few months of my service for free... is that good customer service or a link scheme?

  Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. 
  A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable
  explaining what you've done to a website that competes
  with you, or to a Google employee. Another useful test is
  to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if
  search engines didn't exist?"

  Any links intended to manipulate PageRank or a site's 
  ranking in Google search results may be considered part of
  a link scheme and a violation of Google’s Webmaster
  Guidelines. This includes any behavior that manipulates
  links to your site or outgoing links from your site.

  Large-scale article marketing or guest posting campaigns 
  with keyword-rich anchor text links can negatively impact 
  a site's ranking in search results.

  The best way to get other sites to create high-quality, 
  relevant links to yours is to create unique, relevant
  content that can naturally gain popularity in the Internet
  community. 

  Effectively promoting your new content will lead to 
  faster discovery by those who are interested in the same 
  subject. Avoid: attempting to promote each new, small 
  piece of content you create; go for big, interesting 
  items. Avoid: involving your site in schemes where your 
  content is artificially promoted to the top of these 
  services. Avoid: spamming link requests out to all sites
  related to your topic area. Avoid: purchasing links from 
  another site with the aim of getting PageRank instead of
  traffic.
> If I create a press release on PR Web and link to my service with an appropriate keyword ... is that participating in a link scheme?

  Links with optimized anchor text in articles or press 
  releases distributed on other sites can negatively impact
  a site's ranking in search results.

  Note: I wouldn't expect links from press release web 
  sites to benefit your rankings, however.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#87

Pretty interesting decision to include a lengthy "technical digression" in their SEO apology: >

My favorite is that they seemed to have spent a few hours (more than 3!) improving their code so that it would run in 15 minutes instead of three hours.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#88
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, it also helped that people really found Rap Genius useful. Er, what? You suggesting that Google execs are benchmarking the productivity of google searches? There are a million other "substitutes"...hence the shady SEO...

Google is constantly improving the search results. If factors, such as a low bounce rate and high dwell time, show that a site is popular and useful, why not rank it higher? People tend to think in binary: A site is either spam or no spam. But spam is much more complex. A site can be 90% good and 10% bad. A site can turn spammy without their intention: comment spam, hacked sites. A site can pull out all the stops to…

In order to judge if something is better, it presumes absolute reference points. In otherwords, google ranks the "productivity", generally. And then only later, refines the relative merits within a sub-class. (And if this was true, it would have nothing to do with Rap Genius.)

Avoiding the (questionable) debate on the productive capacity of planet-earth...the "model" of what customers' "really need" is questionable. Do they need (1) information that is factually correct?; and/or (2) do they need the actually meaning or interpretation of (1). And if its true a subset need (2) what is the ratio of (2/1)?

And only then does this framework make sense.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#89
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a double standard. There are thousands of sites which get blacklisted by Google. I'm sure all of them fix their errors really quickly once they realize they are on the black list. And none of them get back on Google nearly as quickly as rap genius did. If Google applied these rules consistently with all websites, I would have no problem with it, but they don't. This breaks the myth that Silicon Valley i…

I want to give both Rap Genius and Google the benefit of the doubt. I like to believe that Google checked the link profile again and found a large amount of low-quality links removed. Google would not remove a penalty if the spammy links were still abundant. So that they are out of a manual penalty is justified. Rap Genius showed good intentions to comply with the guidelines. They went out of their way to clean up th…

This was not greyhat. This was blackhat. Paying money for inbound links on keywords that trasnfer page rank (don't include NOFOLLOW) has been blackhat for a LONG time.

Re: Rap Genius is Back on Google

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apart from evidence that seems to be pointing towards this already happening; Please provide this evidence. I am getting a bit tired of this misinformation. Organic search and paid search are silo'd. To say that Google favors advertisers in the organic results or the other way round, is simply not true. It would destroy Google's credibility. >how tempting do you think it would be for Google It approaches conspiracy…

> Organic search and paid search are silo'd. According to who? Google? Is there any transparency or any way for an outsider to verify that?

Yes. According to Google. It is a myth that is years old.

Matt Cutts answers: Do AdWords customers get special treatment in organic search results?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aV5DmL_eog

If there is evidence that Google gives special treatment to Adwords customers in organic search then this could be verified as a lie. As long as this evidence remains nothing more than accusations and suspicions, then I choose to believe Google that there is no teacup orbiting Venus. It seems unlikely, but not impossible. I am willing to sway my view when I get evidence. Till then, I will treat it as a common newbie myth.

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