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Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

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Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#71

Post by pessimizer »

spodek wrote: post #7

When Nixon went to China people said it took Nixon to go to China, implying only someone obviously anti-communist could go there without being labeled a communist. Likewise, no man could say " Women in 21st century American cities are the privileged of the privileged ," as the woman who wrote that article wrote, without being lambasted. I don't know if I would say it so strongly, but the once-standard view that men s…

Do men dominate homelessness, or do old women and single mothers with children? I'd be interested in any links you have.

also:

>Women are successful in the West

In what way?

>more of them get college degrees,

Oh, that actually is pretty good.

>they live longer,

Didn't they always? That's just biology, isn't it?

>no law forces them to register for the military (in the U.S. at least),

That's not a success of women, that's just a sexist (and common) law. Saudi women aren't drafted either.

>the law doesn't imprison them nearly as much,

Because they don't commit nearly as much crime? I don't understand this at all.

>the government has many programs to help them,

Yup. More would be even better.

>and so on.

So more than college, then?

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#72

Post by quinnchr »

ps4fanboy wrote: post #62
quinnchr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not hypothesizing a reason for this. I'm simply describing the end effect, which is women being paid less. When you control for working hours women entrepreneurs still earn less.

How can this be? Are you suggesting that women run less profitable businesses?

Yes they are less profitable, for a variety of reasons, like the one I already listed, women have less access to capital.

Read the full report if you'd like to learn more!

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#73

Post by ps4fanboy »

alan_cx wrote: post #51
ps4fanboy wrote: post #14

No one will be happy until we have full blown socialism where everyone is assigned a career at birth that maintains a neat ratio for every industry by race/sex.

This is so stupid on so many levels, its actually a work of genius. Im impressed.

How eloquent and insightful

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#75

Post by ps4fanboy »

nicktipp wrote: post #64

And just like that this post went from #3 to off the front page in 5 minutes. Is sexism to controversial of a subject to discuss so it's just going to be ignored?

I think people are just sick of the debate where no actual evidence of sexism is being produced. But most probably this was down flagged because it doesn't fit the narrative of social just warriors on HN. The author is saying that women programs are bad.

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#76

Post by growupkids »

pessimizer wrote: post #35
ppprop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Women need all the help that they can get because men run everything and often don't really think of women as completely human. Women need help because they are constantly under attack." Not sure if this is troll bait, but... are you serious? Do you have anything at all to back this up?

1. Men run everything. 2. Men often don't think of women as human. 3. Women are under attack by men. I don't think these points are controversial. 1. Women are 50% of the workforce, but 4.5% of fortune 1000 CEO positions. 2. Women didn't get the right to vote in America until 50 years after black people, who were officially only partially human. 3. Is a characterization.

Here's some official government sources to go along with this discussion.

Women earn the majority of bachelors, masters and doctorates:

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72

Women live longer than men:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf

More women in the workforce have degrees than men:

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/education/c...

And some non government research papers:

Women choose safer jobs than men (which may explain some income gap differences):

http://www.nber.org/papers/w8574

And a study that suggests that men and women are paid the same:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/payscale-study-wome...

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#79

Post by sp332 »

johnbm wrote: post #68
sp332 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computing is a very young field. It's well on its way to infiltrating our everyday lives, but it's incredibly underdeveloped. Leaving women out of the process of creating the world we're going to live in seems like a really bad idea.

I just don't buy this argument. As others said, it is 2014, not 1990. Women now outnumber men in colleges 3 to 2, and this is somehow not an issue of discrimination or inequality, on the contrary, it is now apparently more important than ever that we eradicate the few areas where men still unambiguously dominate the outcomes. The only thing that has changed is society's view of computer geeks, which has evolved from…

Those are all legitimate problems. But back to the actual topic: why do you think women aren't interested in computer science?

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#80

Post by randomdata »

sp332 wrote: post #11
montage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its because women down't want to take Computer Science?

That's probably not true. The money is pretty good, for one thing :) The ratio used to be higher in the USA, and it's still higher in some other countries. To be specific, it seems like boys are encouraged to go into tech while girls are not, which has a few effects. The first is that girls don't really consider tech at all: it's not that they consider and discard it, they just don't think of it. The other is that mo…

The software industry is kind of elitist. The pay can be great if you are at the top of your game. Below average programmers, however, do not seem to benefit from good pay or access to work.

Of course women can be just as good as men, but there is an inherit risk of not being good at the job even after putting in the effort (for both genders). Perhaps women are generally less willing to take that risk and opt for careers that are more welcoming to varying skill levels?

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