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If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

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Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#41

Post by weland »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #20
zbowling wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really correct. Runloops have modes. Often networking happens in a mode that is not restricted (see NSRunLoopCommonModes here https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/cocoa/... ). If you are running your network code in default mode on the main thread (problematic doing that and it's probably better to use async methods these days) then yes that can happen but it's usually programmer error. On…

Thanks for the clarification. I am aware of what you mention in your answer. In my statement I simplified quite a bit. I know that runloops have different modes. What I was saying is that if you just use the "defaults" then you will see the phenomenon that I described. And I don't think that it is a programmer error if you use the defaults... but sure: These days you would probably just use a framework or take care o…

> And I don't think that it is a programmer error if you use the defaults... but sure: These days you would probably just use a framework or take care of these details...

It's usually a programmer error when you write code that does something other than what you intend, regardless of whether or not what you intend to do is the default behaviour.

I think this is perfectly understandable behaviour for a framework of such a general purpose. The whole convention over configuration thing works for tools like Ruby on Rails and web2py. 90% of the applications written using them are pretty much identical and the non-technical constraints favour quick delivery over well-adapted architecture, so you can afford making it obnoxiously hard for the rest of 10%.

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#42

Post by zbowling »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #36
zbowling wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It almost always programmer error to use defaults mode for NSURLConnection, especially on Mac where they are more runloop modes used by the platform that are not inclusive of defaults mode, unless the user has a very specific reason. File IO is usually ok in defaults mode because it makes code easier and you don't have to worry about timeouts. We make Objective-C run on Android at Apportable :-) The entire stack. Eve…

I still don't agree that it is programmer error per se... but we don't have to agree on that. :) Your idea is somewhat similar to "our" idea... at Objective-Cloud we try to bring Objective-C to the cloud... :) You try to bring it to Android. What a coincidence. Nice to meet you. :)

We should talk off list. :-)

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#43

Post by brianmcdonough »

undoware wrote: post #40

My pet theory about Microsoft is that worse-is-better provides an overwhelming first-mover advantage, and an even more overwhelming second-mover advantage in the longer term (provided the first mover followed the WiB strategy.) I call this 'technical living-beyond-your-means' (rhymes with 'technical debt'). The flame that burns twice as high burns half as long, yada yada. Eventually, you will be kicking yourself for…

I have spent the past two years learning this lesson. It's so much more work to maintain a project that was not put together correctly in the beginning.

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#44

Post by PythonicAlpha »

Nothing new for Microsoft: There is a reason, they had to drop Office 95 and completely re-implemented it. I guess, the day will come, that the current implementation must be abandoned too.

The trouble with today's computing is: Just to much complexity around (starting from the OS, and that is also valid for Linux, I must say!) and to few really good programmers that make things better (and not worse). I see also in the Linux world to much complexity and to few real professionals.

Real professionals don't try to handle complexity -- they try to minimize it!

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#45

Post by kyberias »

This is a 11 year old knowledge base article for a bug in a product (Excel 97) that saw the light in 1997, that is 17 years ago. Yes, the second workaround is kind of hilarious, but let's not draw too many far-fetching conclusions from it. I believe many of us have seen crazier bugs.

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#46

Post by Joeri »

weland wrote: post #37
foobarian wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always fascinated by how tightly bound various software is with UI code in Windows. It's the equivalent of random shell scripts having Xlib or Gnome dependencies just to show a progress meter. I guess if it's an event loop thing one could also alternate 'z' and 'x' as fast as possible :-)

This was a major culture clash for me when I ended up working at a company that mainly sells Windows software. I do my best to stay objective about it and not jump to the conclusion that it's incredibly broken because of its hairiness.

Microsoft agrees that it's broken, which is why they're trying to get rid of the windows desktop and its legacy API's.

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#47

Post by PythonicAlpha »

kyberias wrote: post #45

This is a 11 year old knowledge base article for a bug in a product (Excel 97) that saw the light in 1997, that is 17 years ago. Yes, the second workaround is kind of hilarious, but let's not draw too many far-fetching conclusions from it. I believe many of us have seen crazier bugs.

>I believe many of us have seen crazier bugs.

Might be, but is it a good sign for computer industry as a whole?

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#48

Post by elwell »

Oh, so this actually works? How wrong I was all those times I scoffed at people moving their mouse around while waiting for a program.

On a related note: isn't it interesting how this meme (mostly a placebo) traveled to the majority of computer users in a pre-internet age?

Re: If you move your mouse continually the query may not fail. Do not stop moving

#50

Post by LinaLauneBaer »

zbowling wrote: post #42
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't agree that it is programmer error per se... but we don't have to agree on that. :) Your idea is somewhat similar to "our" idea... at Objective-Cloud we try to bring Objective-C to the cloud... :) You try to bring it to Android. What a coincidence. Nice to meet you. :)

We should talk off list. :-)

:) My email address is in my profile in case you did not already find it...
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