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Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

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Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#11

Post by sp332 »

montage wrote: post #8
sp332 wrote: post #4

If this is true, why are only 20% of Computer Science grads women? And the ratio has been falling since 2001.

Maybe its because women down't want to take Computer Science?

That's probably not true. The money is pretty good, for one thing :) The ratio used to be higher in the USA, and it's still higher in some other countries. To be specific, it seems like boys are encouraged to go into tech while girls are not, which has a few effects. The first is that girls don't really consider tech at all: it's not that they consider and discard it, they just don't think of it. The other is that more boys are proficient at computer skills and programming by the time students are entering college, so even if girls do take intro courses, they are discouraged because it seems like the boys are so much better at it.

Edit: do I really have to put "on average" every time I use the words "boys" and "girls"?

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#13

Post by ps4fanboy »

sp332 wrote: post #11
montage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its because women down't want to take Computer Science?

That's probably not true. The money is pretty good, for one thing :) The ratio used to be higher in the USA, and it's still higher in some other countries. To be specific, it seems like boys are encouraged to go into tech while girls are not, which has a few effects. The first is that girls don't really consider tech at all: it's not that they consider and discard it, they just don't think of it. The other is that mo…

No one ever encouraged me to get into tech, in fact I would say it was discouraged.

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#16

Post by ps4fanboy »

aroch wrote: post #15
sp332 wrote: post #4

If this is true, why are only 20% of Computer Science grads women? And the ratio has been falling since 2001.

Are you genuinely suggesting that every degree should have a 1:1 (or thereabouts) distribution of male and female graduates?

If so a lot of women are going to be upset when they choose architecture which is 80% female in my country.

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#18

Post by ppprop »

sp332 wrote: post #11
montage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its because women down't want to take Computer Science?

That's probably not true. The money is pretty good, for one thing :) The ratio used to be higher in the USA, and it's still higher in some other countries. To be specific, it seems like boys are encouraged to go into tech while girls are not, which has a few effects. The first is that girls don't really consider tech at all: it's not that they consider and discard it, they just don't think of it. The other is that mo…

"it seems like boys are encouraged to go into tech"

Please stop encouraging this lie. I've never been encouraged to go into tech, and I'd venture a guess that most people here weren't either. As a matter of fact, for me it was quite the opposite, because every time I was fiddling with a computer, I was told to "stop playing games" and do something "worthwhile".

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#19

Post by sp332 »

aroch wrote: post #15
sp332 wrote: post #4

If this is true, why are only 20% of Computer Science grads women? And the ratio has been falling since 2001.

Are you genuinely suggesting that every degree should have a 1:1 (or thereabouts) distribution of male and female graduates?

Not necessarily, although it does worry me that the ratio is declining. Specifically, computer-related fields make more than average amount of money, so getting women into tech would help reduce income inequality and associated issues in our society. But here my specific point is: tech fields would be better off with more women!

Re: Do Women Only Initiatives Really Help Women?

#20

Post by pessimizer »

There's no connection between the headline and the article, which not only doesn't examine the results of any women-only initiatives, but only mentions a single example (that it seems to approve of.)

>But there’s something wrong when we treat half the population like a minority or special interest group.

There's also something wrong when we treat half the population like baby breeding kitchen help, too. We remediate the damage done by open sexism through targeted help. When it comes to management, ownership, and government, women are not only a minority, they are an extreme minority.

>Women don’t need all the help we can get because we’re women.

No, that's why a sexist would help women. Women need all the help that they can get because men run everything and often don't really think of women as completely human. Women need help because they are constantly under attack. Women sometimes need help because they are generally smaller and lack upper body strength. If you can get by without it, feel free.

There's a temptation as a member of a discriminated against group who has found some success amongst the dominant group to use their own success and the success of their friends to argue that merit will always rise to the top. Don't do this, because you will be paraded as evidence that discrimination is over, and it's alright to withdraw from the ghettos and set them on fire.

If a few millionaires are enough to say that discrimination doesn't matter anymore, racism against blacks must have ended before slavery.

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