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Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#51

Post by CJefferson »

3am wrote: post #32
CJefferson wrote: post #28

The problem is you appear to live in a fantasy land. I only read the second paragraph, but it is one of the stupidest things I've ever read (sorry, that is a harsh thing to say, but I think this requires a reply this strong). "Work from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep. Take your breakfast while reviewing your to-do list for the day. Work a few hours. At lunch, discuss with your team what’s the best solut…

"I would hate to be your loved one." Is there any need to be that mean spirited about it? I think a sizeable quiet minority is underwhelmed by the work ethic philosophies discussions on HN. I don't think I'd go as far as the submitter, but I don't think I'd categorize it as "incredibly self-centered". edit: to the submitter, I don't think it was bad english or your tone. Some people are unable to consume opinions the…

You are right, what I have written comes across as a personal attack and I'm sorry for that. I should have said "I would hate to be the loved one described in the first two paragraphs of this article". However, I do stand by this adjusted point -- I would not stay in a relationship which operated as described in the first two paragraphs of this article (which, to clarify, I'm not saying is how Daniel's relationship really is -- just how his blog post comes across).

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#53

Post by Vaskivo »

danielflopes wrote: post #31
chany2 wrote: post #17

I actually agree with your post. And subscribed to you afterwards. I often encounter the same issue. //// Typical Example: Friends ask me what I am doing over the weekend? I said I got some work to do. I have to learn NodeJs, figure out how to parse BCC address off an email, focus on my UI and UX design for my email app, go do more research on hashtags for emails, etc... What I cited there are not "work" per say as c…

You said it well: "What I cited there are not "work" per say as coined in most people's mind as the dreary 8 hour work life." And yes, I understand your point: work can be enjoyed to the point it feels like a videogame! Anyhow, the words and the tone I choose maybe weren't the best to communicate what I mean. Thanks for the feedback (and thanks for subscribing!).

For me, that's the gist of it. When you say 'work' I associate the word with 'job work'.

I enjoy programming and reading about programming. And I do it. And I know the same reactions like "You're programming outside your job??". Now the main difference between you and me is that I do these things because I enjoy them, while you do them for the benefits they bring (knowledge, portfolio, etc).

I am a bit of an hedonist, and try to do stuff I ENJOY, regardless of the benefits they bring. Example: I like good food. And I like experimenting new kinds of dishes. But I don't like cooking. SO I rarely make elaborate dishes (I usually eat something quickly made). I don't go for the good dishes because I don't enjoy to process to get there! (In university it was common for me to lose way too much time in a project or subject that I enjoyed, and then having to pull one nighters to study for another)

Now regarding job work. I am Portuguese, and I believe we have a cultural bias that "job work" is not enjoyable. I share that opinion, in a weird way. To me, I shouldn't love my job. I'm not saying I hate my job, in fact, it has it's fun moments. But it's not my ideal way to spend a day. The momentss where you don't want to get off your bed to go to work, our your, once again, implementing something tedious, that's when I realised what having a job is like.

But not loving your job, to me, IS A GOOD THING! It keeps me focused on my objectives. I have hobbies and a girlfriend. My jobs gives me money to travel, buy stuff, and pamper myself and the gf. And eat tasty and expensive food :)

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#54

Post by 3am »

CJefferson wrote: post #51
3am wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would hate to be your loved one." Is there any need to be that mean spirited about it? I think a sizeable quiet minority is underwhelmed by the work ethic philosophies discussions on HN. I don't think I'd go as far as the submitter, but I don't think I'd categorize it as "incredibly self-centered". edit: to the submitter, I don't think it was bad english or your tone. Some people are unable to consume opinions the…

You are right, what I have written comes across as a personal attack and I'm sorry for that. I should have said "I would hate to be the loved one described in the first two paragraphs of this article". However, I do stand by this adjusted point -- I would not stay in a relationship which operated as described in the first two paragraphs of this article (which, to clarify, I'm not saying is how Daniel's relationship r…

I try to avoid posting about tone because I don't think they add to the discussion and a lot of the time aren't received well. Thanks for the response.

And I don't entirely disagree with you either... my read of the post was it was an exhortation to be passionate about purposeful about work, not really an itinerary planner around one's day. But if I interpreted it differently, I would have a different opinion. I also think the work/dinner discussion suggestion was something I'd try very hard to avoid in my own life :)

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#55

Post by jamesbrownuhh »

I wasn't a reader of your blog previously, but from the sidebar I take it to be about optimising your activities and effort - work smarter, not harder, that kind of thing. So really I'm guessing that an audience seeking those kind of tips is going to be mildly surprised or discouraged by an article which, in the first few sentences, basically seems to say "work all the time, every chance you get." - Chances are that such content is the absolute opposite of what your audience came for and is expecting.

Some way down you do then introduce the idea that time is precious and it should not be wasted "consuming low quality content" - and not saying that your blog is low quality at all, but this sentence does plant a very powerful seed. Don't waste time with things you don't want to read or which are not interesting or relevant to your interests.

The combination of the two could be a one-two punch, at least for some people. If people have not enjoyed the article, the immediate reaction may well be to "unsubscribe now."

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#56

Post by eevilspock »

3am wrote: post #32
CJefferson wrote: post #28

The problem is you appear to live in a fantasy land. I only read the second paragraph, but it is one of the stupidest things I've ever read (sorry, that is a harsh thing to say, but I think this requires a reply this strong). "Work from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep. Take your breakfast while reviewing your to-do list for the day. Work a few hours. At lunch, discuss with your team what’s the best solut…

"I would hate to be your loved one." Is there any need to be that mean spirited about it? I think a sizeable quiet minority is underwhelmed by the work ethic philosophies discussions on HN. I don't think I'd go as far as the submitter, but I don't think I'd categorize it as "incredibly self-centered". edit: to the submitter, I don't think it was bad english or your tone. Some people are unable to consume opinions the…

It's not mean spirited, it's an honest reaction, one that I myself felt. Lopes is baffled and is asking HN for the truth, not for commiseration. "I'm interested in knowing the point of view from the people of HN." By "point of view" I don't think he wants anything less than the point of view.

By the way, the 10% who abandoned their subscriptions probably did so silently out of politeness.

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#57

Post by eevilspock »

danielflopes wrote: post #15
loumf wrote: post #8

Probably because the post was incongruous with why they subscribed in the first place. 10% of what number? Which post gets you the most subscriptions? Picking Sam Walton as a role-model of happiness is unsubstantiated -- he was definitely rich, so a better title might be: "If you want money, work more" -- which is essentially what you wrote.

I picked Sam Walton because I've been reading his auto biography, and he seems to be a good example of someone who really loved his job. Also, his family didn't consider him an absent father. He was someone who managed to merge his job, his family and his life goals in an harmonious way. Is 10% of around 100. Tt's a small number, I know... but it still is 10% ... =/

I don't know anything about Walton, but in general autobiographies reflect the typically rosy lenses that people use when viewing themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#59

Post by danielflopes »

3am wrote: post #54
CJefferson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, what I have written comes across as a personal attack and I'm sorry for that. I should have said "I would hate to be the loved one described in the first two paragraphs of this article". However, I do stand by this adjusted point -- I would not stay in a relationship which operated as described in the first two paragraphs of this article (which, to clarify, I'm not saying is how Daniel's relationship r…

I try to avoid posting about tone because I don't think they add to the discussion and a lot of the time aren't received well. Thanks for the response. And I don't entirely disagree with you either... my read of the post was it was an exhortation to be passionate about purposeful about work, not really an itinerary planner around one's day. But if I interpreted it differently, I would have a different opinion. I also…

Thank you both for the responses. It was my intention to hear the opinion of the HN community. But, may you agree or not with my post, I believe a good discussion should always be about giving some constructive feedback in a friendly tone.

Thanks CJefferson for clarifying your response. Thanks 3am for the giving the heads up. Sincerely.

Re: Ask HN: Why did this post cost me 10% of subscribers?

#60

Post by danielflopes »

DanielStraight wrote: post #38
CJefferson wrote: post #28

The problem is you appear to live in a fantasy land. I only read the second paragraph, but it is one of the stupidest things I've ever read (sorry, that is a harsh thing to say, but I think this requires a reply this strong). "Work from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep. Take your breakfast while reviewing your to-do list for the day. Work a few hours. At lunch, discuss with your team what’s the best solut…

Do not forget what happened when people took PG's words out of context and judged them in haste just a few days ago. I urge you to go back and read the full article as well as the author's comments here before passing judgment. I think everyone deserves at least to be heard out.

Thanks Daniel!
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