ITT: people who believe there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats.
SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
41–50 of 59 posts
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#42Well, there is probably a greater cultural gap between San Francisco and Los Angeles than exists between Fargo and Little Rock. And I do have a preference for smaller and more responsive polities. But with my foil hat on, I realize that this is a play by non-Californians to manipulate national politics at the expense of the states. I'll only support it if they do California, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and New York at…
> cultural gap between San Francisco and Los Angeles
I'm curious as to what you think this gap is.
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#43California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…
Do you think it impossible for such a change to result in the same regional California but more functional government?
I've been places where township governments were basically just an extra layer underneath the county (providing little more than redundant obstruction). I can imagine voices in these townships reaching for similar arguments about how beautiful the township is and how change is bad.
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#44California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…
That's all this is, a thinly veiled attempt at keeping tax revenues in the Valley. And the plan is totally impractical given how the state manages its water supply; questions of water supply will keep the state united (unless the northern parts were to dry up in coming decades).
The only real benefit I see with the plan is forcing some of the water issues. It would be nice to see some desalination plants pop up to handle the costal city water so the agriculture can be preserved.
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#45California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…
Breaking up the state will provide better democratic representation.
Maybe locally—but nationally, it will reduce California’s voice to an infinitesimal one.
I have a hunch that this is something that Koch allies and the RNC would love to see, as it would mean that a fairly-reliable blue state (with a lot of EVs) would become two smaller blue states and four red states.
This makes even less sense than Prop 13, and will have a substantially worse effect.
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
12 Senators, for a start.
In Switzerland, some cantons (their equivalent of a state) decided to split. Before they had 2 votes each in the Council of States; after the split, each half-canton got 1 vote each - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland#Half-can... . It would be fair to split California into 2 and then each half would get 1 senator. Otherwise you might try to play the population card, but other states would need to ap…
> It would be fair to split California into 2 and then each half would get 1 senator.
Er, even split into 6 states with two senators, California would be underrepresented compared to many other states.
Plus, the one thing that the Constitution expressly prohibits doing even by Constitutional amendment is changing the distribution of Senators to something where states would not have equal representation. (You can take away all the power of the Senate by Constitutional amendment, but you can't stop it from representing the states equally.)
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#47This is such a bad idea! Water rights anyone?
Yeah, that's one area where this would be the opposite of local control, as it would essentially federalize the California water issues that aren't already federal (since interstate compacts must be approved by Congress.)
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#48I could see (but not really support) a reasonable argument for making a North California & South California. It is a pretty big land mass with a large population. But I think 6 is overkill.
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
How else could you do it? Tax only the people in favor of infrastructure improvements and prevent everyone else from using them? Only arrest people using recreational drugs if they voted against legalization?
You could do it the way it is done now. Geographically.
What does geography have to do with good government?
Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Breaking up the state will provide better democratic representation.
Maybe locally—but nationally, it will reduce California’s voice to an infinitesimal one. I have a hunch that this is something that Koch allies and the RNC would love to see, as it would mean that a fairly-reliable blue state (with a lot of EVs) would become two smaller blue states and four red states. This makes even less sense than Prop 13, and will have a substantially worse effect.
(Disclaimer: I'm not American)
Doesn't the US system over-represent smaller states? Seems like Californians would have more representatives in DC with these changes.
On the second electoral-vote point, it sounds like the proposal would result in more proportional representation of Californians' political opinion which is surely a good thing.