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SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

sixcalifornias.info

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Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#31

Post by Xdes »

belluchan wrote: post #20
Xdes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breaking up the state will provide better democratic representation.

I'm not sure how that couldn't be an argument to break up all the large states. It would just turn the senate into another house of representatives. And it's a weird way to fix the senate if you wanted it to be fixed. You should instead get the congress to move over to a parliamentary system where all percentages of votes are counted instead of a plurality takes all. You could ask for more senators. And then you will…

>I'm not sure how that couldn't be an argument to break up all the large states

It might be worth considering some kind of population density clause for when the number of constituents to representatives reaches a ridiculous value.

>You should instead get the congress to move over to a parliamentary system where all percentages of votes are counted instead of a plurality takes all.

This kind of a fix isn't pragmatic and will have a bigger disruption than breaking up one state. It's not like the geography is going to change because the lines are redrawn.

>And then you will not be breaking up my home state with these outsider ideas.

Have you considered whether other residents of the state share your view? Maybe the larger metropolitan areas are alright keeping around the sparser rural areas, but not the inverse?

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#32

Post by abdophoto »

belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#33

Post by someguyonhn »

psuter wrote: post #18
logfromblammo wrote: post #14

Well, there is probably a greater cultural gap between San Francisco and Los Angeles than exists between Fargo and Little Rock. And I do have a preference for smaller and more responsive polities. But with my foil hat on, I realize that this is a play by non-Californians to manipulate national politics at the expense of the states. I'll only support it if they do California, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and New York at…

I find the idea that political and cultural boundaries should align to be a very sad and unimaginative one. (Not suggesting you hold an opposite view.)

I agree entirely. I like the fact that as a nation and even in most localities there are people with diverse views, backgrounds, etc. and we all have to figure out how to make this whole living together thing work (or move).

I don't think there's an example of a place that attempted to align in such a way and magically it worked. Even within places where people agree broadly about the role of government, etc. Such as NYC. There are always the same disagreements about how we run the way we live, such as the NYC mayoral primary that happened in 2013.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#35

Post by ds9 »

krupan wrote: post #22

I grew up in Washington state and there were periodic calls to divide it vertically down the middle so that those in the (less populous) eastern (largely Republican) half of the state could be more independent of the (more populous, largely Democrat) western half of the state. The kicker was the proposed name for the new state: Lincoln.

To clarify, under that proposal, the "new" state (Lincoln) would be the eastern one and the western one would be still called Washington. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_%28proposed_Northweste...

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#36

Post by someguyonhn »

carsongross wrote: post #30
belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

Yes. We must preserve diversity... by crushing it under a single government. Power to the people... the people in Sacramento, am I right? Keep on trying to control the frame ("weird rich kids", "embarrassment", "hearts and minds"). We've reached peak centralization. The future is decentralization, subsidiary, and localized control.

Everyone already has a lot of localized control. That's how America, and most individualized states, are set up. I assume by control you mean representation. Are you arguing that the representation within the state isn't good enough? If so there are other avenues to fix that problem, such as changing the state legislature where most of the laws that affect the day to day lives of Californians come from, to be more representative. I can't see how creating five new states solves any control or representation problem.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#37

Post by natrius »

oinksoft wrote: post #11
belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

That's all this is, a thinly veiled attempt at keeping tax revenues in the Valley. And the plan is totally impractical given how the state manages its water supply; questions of water supply will keep the state united (unless the northern parts were to dry up in coming decades).

If some of the split states will have money but others will have water, that sounds like a problem trade was invented to solve.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#38

Post by codereflection »

belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

As someone who grew up in California, and lived there for a total of 31 years, I couldn't agree more.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#39

Post by belluchan »

carsongross wrote: post #30
belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

Yes. We must preserve diversity... by crushing it under a single government. Power to the people... the people in Sacramento, am I right? Keep on trying to control the frame ("weird rich kids", "embarrassment", "hearts and minds"). We've reached peak centralization. The future is decentralization, subsidiary, and localized control.

I'm not sure you actually made a cogent argument I can respond to. The future is whatever we make it to be, and I don't like your vision of the future, and you aren't very good at convincing me to see the merits of what you want. What you want seems to be standard troglodyte big government is bad. This state has its many issues, but it also has many pluses and ruining its identity so you can build your libertarian dream state has already been tried in New Hampshire. It didn't work out.
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