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SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

sixcalifornias.info

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Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#11

Post by oinksoft »

belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

That's all this is, a thinly veiled attempt at keeping tax revenues in the Valley. And the plan is totally impractical given how the state manages its water supply; questions of water supply will keep the state united (unless the northern parts were to dry up in coming decades).

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#12

Post by dragonwriter »

notacoward wrote: post #8
jaibot wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 Senators, for a start.

Which is exactly why it will never happen. Those over-represented tiny states will oppose it by every means, fair or foul, and there's simply no way that anyone else will find the change desirable enough to join the fight on California's side.

> Those over-represented tiny red states will oppose it by every means

I'm not sure why they would oppose replacing one giant Democratic-majority state with 6 states that aren't mostly Democratic-majority -- it improves the Republican structural position in the Senate and Presidential elections.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#14

Post by logfromblammo »

Well, there is probably a greater cultural gap between San Francisco and Los Angeles than exists between Fargo and Little Rock. And I do have a preference for smaller and more responsive polities.

But with my foil hat on, I realize that this is a play by non-Californians to manipulate national politics at the expense of the states. I'll only support it if they do California, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and New York at the same time.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#15

Post by notacoward »

dragonwriter wrote: post #12
notacoward wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is exactly why it will never happen. Those over-represented tiny states will oppose it by every means, fair or foul, and there's simply no way that anyone else will find the change desirable enough to join the fight on California's side.

> Those over-represented tiny red states will oppose it by every means I'm not sure why they would oppose replacing one giant Democratic-majority state with 6 states that aren't mostly Democratic-majority -- it improves the Republican structural position in the Senate and Presidential elections.

There might be a temptation for tiny red states to support the move as a way to improve the Republican position, but...

(a) Such an advantage might be transitory. Who's to say those new states will remain red, especially when they're submitted to a new level of political targeting that they never were when the state outcome was dominated by urban blue-ness? Even those tiny-state folks can recognize a two edged sword for what it is.

(b) There are small blue states too.

(c) Both effects are likely to be outweighed by issues that have nothing to do with red vs. blue. The over-represented states want to stay that way, no matter which parties are involved.

Also, don't downvote just because you disagree.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#16

Post by Xdes »

belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

Breaking up the state will provide better democratic representation.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#17

Post by javert »

smtddr wrote: post #13

I already debated this before... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6940199 I hope this doesn't pass because I know how the lines will be drawn. The rich, privileged will be grouped together and will take advantage of the poor.

The poor have nothing for the rich and privileged to take advantage of. It can only ever happen in the other direction.

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#18

Post by psuter »

logfromblammo wrote: post #14

Well, there is probably a greater cultural gap between San Francisco and Los Angeles than exists between Fargo and Little Rock. And I do have a preference for smaller and more responsive polities. But with my foil hat on, I realize that this is a play by non-Californians to manipulate national politics at the expense of the states. I'll only support it if they do California, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and New York at…

I find the idea that political and cultural boundaries should align to be a very sad and unimaginative one.

(Not suggesting you hold an opposite view.)

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#19

Post by someguyonhn »

I find it really odd that anyone would actually think something like this would work. Firstly, California would have to agree to break itself into 6 states. Even if that happened, those six states, which as far as America is concerned are still all part of California, would then need to convince Congress (which are the representatives of the rest of the country with a disproportionate representation of tiny states) to allow them to join the Union. Asking Congress to let 5 extra states join the Union is pretty much asking every state if it's cool that California gets 10 new Senators and 5 new Congressman. It seems odd that anyone would think Congress would be okay with that, especially when it doesn't seem to benefit the country at all.

I also think it's funny that they've hired a PR firm[1] that handles "luxury hotels and resorts"[2], and "Luxury Real Estate Developments and Private Residence Clubs"[2] to contact for information. I can't think of any successful, attempting to be grassroots movement, created to try to improve the lives of others, that hired a PR firm from the start.

[1] - The for press inquiries link at the bottom of their landing page [2] - The PR company's clients section http://www.seahorsepr.com/clients/clients.htm

Re: SixCalifornias - initiative to create six states

#20

Post by belluchan »

Xdes wrote: post #16
belluchan wrote: post #9

California is a beautiful state and I never want to see it broken up. Joshua Trees, Lake Tahoe, the coast of Mendocino, in fact all of Highway 1, Alpine, Torrey Pines, Russia River, the rocky hills of North County San Diego, Red Woods and Big Sur, San Francisco, Balboa Park, White Sands, Death Valley, and on and on. The many missions. The many universities. Between Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California touches mor…

Breaking up the state will provide better democratic representation.

I'm not sure how that couldn't be an argument to break up all the large states. It would just turn the senate into another house of representatives.

And it's a weird way to fix the senate if you wanted it to be fixed. You should instead get the congress to move over to a parliamentary system where all percentages of votes are counted instead of a plurality takes all. You could ask for more senators. And then you will not be breaking up my home state with these outsider ideas. All of these solutions are about as likely to pass: nil chance. And I'll fight tooth and nail to keep help keep this state together.

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