Heh. Almost two years ago I was fired from a fairly prominent internet services company... Ah, who am I trying to avoid? It was Akamai. I speak ill of them all the time. Not about their impressive infrastructure and engineering, or the scores of brilliant people I had the privilege to work with. No, it was more my experience with the corporate culture and the pervasive games of "power politics" that anybody who wasn'…
Fired? Speak No Evil
161–170 of 378 posts
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#162Lets say you were to sign something like this, but then 10 years later the company completely changed direction and their new business plan was stealing candy from babies. Then you wrote something about how horrible the company is now. What kind of recourse would this contract let them take on you? Would you just have to pay the 2 weeks salary back to them?
I wondered about this after I signed a severance contract that required me not to "disclose, defame, compete, or recruit" for a set period of time. Don't judge me, it was an emotional time and the severance was non-trivial. I'm happy to say that time is over and I've gone on a disclosure, defamation, competition, and recruiting spree.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#163And I was soon informed that the president wished to assure me that there is nothing unusual about such clauses Whoop whoop whoop! This sets off giant alarm bells in my head. It might be totally normal. That doesn't mean you should sign it. It's also an older-than-dirt salesman tactic to say that something you just made up is "totally common." Of course, the company can attach whatever clauses it wants to a separatio…
(This, of course, does nothing for what you may have signed upon becoming employed, nor what they may have shoved under your pen while you were employed.)
Generally, the incentives are relatively small, and what you are giving up is potentially rather greater. This is why they attempt it -- risk reduction. I'm aware of proposed agreements that, for a few thousand dollars in a one time payout, cause the formerly employed to abrogate supposedly all rights to sue, on any basis.
Granted, that may not be entirely enforceable. But it's another considerable hurdle to surmount if and as you feel and determine yourself to have been wronged. First, you have to attempt to break out of the binding arbitration -- if any -- that such contracts impose.
I'd rather have a few expensive suits and management sweat a bit more, if nothing else, in such circumstances. Tie them up with more paperwork and tracking. If nothing else, it helps to keep them on their toes and perhaps less likely to screw the next guy.
And yes, again, in such circumstances, somewhat of that perspective is prescribed. No matter how well you may have gotten on with your co-workers and immediate management, the company is not / no longer your friend.
You will feel and manage much better if you have prepared yourself for such an event, however unlikely you may currently consider it to be. Have enough cash and liquid assets on-hand to ride out such a period of unemployment. Don't assume you will have unemployment benefits when making such calculations; if a business decides it wants to screw you, they can at least delay the granting of such -- though you should contest such a tactic. (And, in that regard, documentation is your friend. Keep printouts of relevant material. If you feel things are going south, keep a separate, datestamped journal documenting specific events in detail.)
If you have assets on hand, you will feel less motivated to take such a payout, especially not one that is rushed upon you with a very limited window for consideration. You may also decide it is worth the money to at least consult with an attorney (that you are paying by the hour, not on contingency) for an independent and professional opinion.
Many people on HN are at least ostensibly "professionals". A few thousand, for a regular, full-time employee, should not make or break you. Look towards handling your end of such an employment arrangement professionally.
Even if it costs you a bit of money, you will likely feel much better about yourself and how you've handled the situation.
And that self-esteem, aside from any (frankly, unlikely) favorable financial outcome, can pay off significantly as you move on with your life.
Just my opinion...
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#164I have serious misgivings about this sort of "hush money". In general, I'd prefer not to interfere in private contracts, but this one has such serious implications for everyone else. In particular, it can end up creating an information imbalance, enforced by the courts, that allows a certain group of people to remain "in the know", with everyone else unaware of what is going on. I read a while back about a law firm t…
The article works against your point. Ultimately, he didn't take the money. We aren't in danger of living in a world where people can't talk about work. The vast majority of employers wouldn't be able to afford such a clause.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
No they're not. From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration Consideration is something of value given by a promissor to a promisee in exchange for something of value given by a promisee to a promissor. Typically, the thing of value is a payment, although it may be an act, or forbearance to act. Paying you not to speak is no more an attempt to dissolve your human agency than paying you to speak. Assumin…
> Assuming you have nothing disparaging to say, not agreeing is foolish. That sounds an awful lot like "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear", a statement which I know is very much false. What you think is disparaging may be very different from what your employer thinks is disparaging. By signing away your rights using ill-defined and imprecise language, you are only opening yourself up to potential…
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's in a secret section of the constitution on employment law, that overrides the first amendment.
The first amendment (and all the rest of it) has nothing to do with non-governmental, private interactions.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#167And I was soon informed that the president wished to assure me that there is nothing unusual about such clauses Whoop whoop whoop! This sets off giant alarm bells in my head. It might be totally normal. That doesn't mean you should sign it. It's also an older-than-dirt salesman tactic to say that something you just made up is "totally common." Of course, the company can attach whatever clauses it wants to a separatio…
"so mr employer you admit you have done something illegal either by omission or commission and you want me to sign a compromise agreement?"
Well I am sure that my lawyers will be interested can you let me who in hr is your GC (lawyer) and I am sure we can sort something out or I will settle for 6 months right now.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#168Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#169And I was soon informed that the president wished to assure me that there is nothing unusual about such clauses Whoop whoop whoop! This sets off giant alarm bells in my head. It might be totally normal. That doesn't mean you should sign it. It's also an older-than-dirt salesman tactic to say that something you just made up is "totally common." Of course, the company can attach whatever clauses it wants to a separatio…
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depending on where you are, "severance", or the 2-week pay after you have been told you do not have a job anymore, may or may not be a worker's right.
IANAL, but while that may be true in general, California (where the author was employed[0]) is an at-will state, and most people reading HN (in fact, most people working at startups in general) are likely to be employed at-will. AFAIK, that means that they are not entitled to any severance unless their initial contract stipulated otherwise. [0] Actually, where the company was based we don't know which employment laws…
Most offers I see are clear that the letter is not a contract, and no contract can even exist without direct and explicit intervention by the CEO. And that seems to be a left-handed way of saying that if you do try to get an actual contract, you will not be successful, and the offer of employment will be withdrawn. I would very much like to see more at-will workers do same-day resignations when they change jobs, possibly even writing their own severance agreements.
It isn't unprofessional to abruptly walk out on the job if giving notice was never in the requirements. And most of the time, all that you get for the courtesy of making it easier for the employer to replace you is a payout for your accumulated vacation time, if anything.