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Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

hackthis.co.uk

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Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#51

Post by codezero »

emhart wrote: post #43
codezero wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does this mean that you have to set pins sequentially? It seems like if the plug rotates slightly, it does it for the entire length of the lock, so doesn't this affect whether or not other pins are able to be set?

The reason we can pick locks is that there are many minute differences between the various internal objects. Pins may not be perfectly round, pin chambers may not be in alignment, etc. Small small differences, but when you apply a very light pressure to the pins, you'll actually bind the "weirdest" one first. You aren't binding every pin, just one at a time, when that one is set, you move on to the next weirdest. The…

I see, I guess what I am thinking is that if you are applying pressure to one pin, you must be applying (at least some) pressure to all the other pins since you apply the pressure via torque from turning the cylinder which turns (presumably?) uniformly from front to back. I guess the entire cylinder can jostle slightly within its chamber, so that could affect where and how pressure from torque is applied.

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#52

Post by emhart »

codezero wrote: post #51
emhart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we can pick locks is that there are many minute differences between the various internal objects. Pins may not be perfectly round, pin chambers may not be in alignment, etc. Small small differences, but when you apply a very light pressure to the pins, you'll actually bind the "weirdest" one first. You aren't binding every pin, just one at a time, when that one is set, you move on to the next weirdest. The…

I see, I guess what I am thinking is that if you are applying pressure to one pin, you must be applying (at least some) pressure to all the other pins since you apply the pressure via torque from turning the cylinder which turns (presumably?) uniformly from front to back. I guess the entire cylinder can jostle slightly within its chamber, so that could affect where and how pressure from torque is applied.

Sorry to say, but what you are thinking is actually just wrong. Drop your mental model and adopt mine.

You apply very light pressure to the wrench, which turns the plug, which collides with the weirdest pin out. There are circumstances in which you may bind multiple pins. If the lock is made to absurdly high standards (and I mean lock manufacturer playing a prank on lockpickers level of high standards) or if you apply your tension too heavily.

Watch this video to see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKvPS1ac6E&list=SP66CD42F86F...

The first several pins in the lock, as I am searching for the binding pin, are under no pressure whatsoever and can move freely between the upper and lower pin chambers.

Also - noticed you are at Quora, I actually write about lockpicking in film and television over there from time to time: http://tvpicking.quora.com

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#53

Post by kriro »

It's fun and relaxing but most locks are too easy to pick. For me it's kind of similar to knitting as a relaxing exercise :D

I still remember a fun talk I heard about the safety of gun safes (or lack thereof). They cracked it and told the manufacturers how easy it was and got a reply along the lines of "well maybe it's easy for a specialist like you with good equipment but it's safe enough for normal folks". Next slide contained a video of a 6 year old kid (highly trained security specialist) cracking the thing with a straw (specialized security equipment).

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#54

Post by freehunter »

saraid216 wrote: post #38
freehunter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his goal was to beat high school kids and he did just that, then yes. If your goal is to pick locks and you successfully pick the locks you want to open, then you're good at picking locks. Can you be a good programmer without being the best programmer or even a world class programmer?

When did skill become a function of subjective goals?

When you factor in things such as "I'm a skilled programmer, but I don't know Ada." Are you still a skilled programmer? Sure, you're quite good at Ruby and Javascript. But you don't know Ada. Why not? Because your goal was never to learn every programming language.

If you want to pick every lock available to you and you can do so quickly and successfully, you're a skilled lock picker. Buying harder locks just to show you can pick them is an academic feat, not necessarily a real-world skill. Skill is just aptitude in doing something successfully.

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#55

Post by markdown »

chongli wrote: post #34
herbig wrote: post #2

I was really into this back in high school but never got proficient in it. The concept is simple to understand but actually executing it takes a LOT of practice. Raking can open a lot of older locks pretty quickly, but that doesn't mean you're skilled. Also, just owning the tools is illegal in some states.

Also, just owning the tools is illegal in some states. Which is just completely silly. Who is going to pick the lock on somebody's house to break in? The idea of the highly-skilled locksmith cat-burglar is complete fiction.

> Who is going to pick the lock on somebody's house to break in?

Wait, why wouldn't this be better than smashing a window to get in?

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#56

Post by codezero »

emhart wrote: post #52
codezero wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, I guess what I am thinking is that if you are applying pressure to one pin, you must be applying (at least some) pressure to all the other pins since you apply the pressure via torque from turning the cylinder which turns (presumably?) uniformly from front to back. I guess the entire cylinder can jostle slightly within its chamber, so that could affect where and how pressure from torque is applied.

Sorry to say, but what you are thinking is actually just wrong. Drop your mental model and adopt mine. You apply very light pressure to the wrench, which turns the plug, which collides with the weirdest pin out. There are circumstances in which you may bind multiple pins. If the lock is made to absurdly high standards (and I mean lock manufacturer playing a prank on lockpickers level of high standards) or if you appl…

Thanks, to be clear, I wasn't assuming I was right, but was making assumptions, thanks a lot for replying to my comments, you've been very helpful :)

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#57

Post by lostcolony »

codezero wrote: post #51
emhart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we can pick locks is that there are many minute differences between the various internal objects. Pins may not be perfectly round, pin chambers may not be in alignment, etc. Small small differences, but when you apply a very light pressure to the pins, you'll actually bind the "weirdest" one first. You aren't binding every pin, just one at a time, when that one is set, you move on to the next weirdest. The…

I see, I guess what I am thinking is that if you are applying pressure to one pin, you must be applying (at least some) pressure to all the other pins since you apply the pressure via torque from turning the cylinder which turns (presumably?) uniformly from front to back. I guess the entire cylinder can jostle slightly within its chamber, so that could affect where and how pressure from torque is applied.

No. When you apply pressure to one pin, you're not applying pressure (well, on a macroscopic level to where it would in any way bind it) to any of the others.

The pins aren't in a perfect straight line, nor are the holes perfectly uniform, due to the machine tolerances. We're talking on the order of microns here, but that's enough.

Turning the slug will thus cause one pin to bind against the cylinder first, and as soon as it clear, the slug turns ever so slightly, keeping the top pin from being able to fall back down (while the lower one can drop back down).

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#58

Post by emhart »

codezero wrote: post #56
emhart wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to say, but what you are thinking is actually just wrong. Drop your mental model and adopt mine. You apply very light pressure to the wrench, which turns the plug, which collides with the weirdest pin out. There are circumstances in which you may bind multiple pins. If the lock is made to absurdly high standards (and I mean lock manufacturer playing a prank on lockpickers level of high standards) or if you appl…

Thanks, to be clear, I wasn't assuming I was right, but was making assumptions, thanks a lot for replying to my comments, you've been very helpful :)

No problem :) They are really beautiful, complex systems, and as amazing as it is to understand and then manipulate them, I passionately believe that the real genius is holding them all together in your head before they've ever existed in the first place.

Lock engineers have incredibly sharp minds.

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#59

Post by codezero »

emhart wrote: post #58
codezero wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, to be clear, I wasn't assuming I was right, but was making assumptions, thanks a lot for replying to my comments, you've been very helpful :)

No problem :) They are really beautiful, complex systems, and as amazing as it is to understand and then manipulate them, I passionately believe that the real genius is holding them all together in your head before they've ever existed in the first place. Lock engineers have incredibly sharp minds.

The video you shared gave me a much better idea of what's happening I'm sure it's still not close to what really is going on, but thanks for that.

Unrelated, are there any locks which use full length pins that are hollow and encapsulate the spring? It seems like a big source of the misalignment that allows setting is from the pin itself being able to move off its axis where it attaches to the spring.

Re: Lock Picking – A Basic Guide

#60

Post by portmanteaufu »

jamesbritt wrote: post #29
lowglow wrote: post #14

I'm trying to prototype something called The Hacker Pen and wanted to get some community feedback. It's basically a nice heavy pen, with lock picks on the inside. It will also include a USB key with a digital penetration testing suite on it. What are your thoughts?

Nice idea. Depending on where you sell this from you may want to check the laws about providing such a tool and if you need to verify anything about the customer before allowing a sale. For example in some parts of the USA one has to show proof of either being a licensed locksmith or a member of some law enforcemnt group.

Here's a good starting reference on the legality of owning lockpicks from state to state:

http://toool.us/laws.html

It doesn't cover sale / purchase, just ownership by state.

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