Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move • Hacker News Board

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#231

Post by wonderzombie » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:03 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #192

davidw wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the actual facts in this case? There are tons of people who use and know git. It's fast, it works pretty well. There's some value in the fact that it's widely known and used (network effects), probably enough that whatever takes its place will probably be not just a bit better, but a lot better, in some way. bzr does not strike me, offhand, as being a lot better. Is fossil? So in this case, I think that the…

What are the actual facts in this case? I'm talking in general. I think it's good they're going to git. bzr does not strike me, offhand, as being a lot better. I never said it was better or worse. My comment is about the "field" and how accurate its "information" is in general. Sometimes social signalling and network effects are good. What disturbs me is that so many of us use this as a substitute for facts and objec…

> What disturbs me is that so many of us use this as a substitute for facts and objective analysis.

I think there's something to this. At a guess, people use a heuristic because facts and objective analysis are hard. I don't mean that sarcastically— I mean that it's difficult and complex even if you are not lazy. When people opt for what everyone else is using, they receive the benefits of treading a well-worn path. This isn't an excuse, but I am sympathetic. Some people are just trying to get work done.

On the other hand, that is a poor justification for being too lazy to do the job right. Often a problem isn't as hard or complex as it looks, and you might just learn something while looking into it. You get the idea.

Also, +1 to your comment re: sexism and ageism.

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#232

Post by derleth » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:06 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #81

xradionut wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate when people say "git won the war", it sounds like an excuse to close minds and stop progress. What if "Microsoft won the war"? Or vim? Or IBM? Or Java? Or Taco Bell?

Microsoft did win the war; very little progress has been made by its competitors from the time; what's had success has been new OSes - OSX, iOS and Android (which while built of GNU/Linux pieces, is radically different from traditional GNU/Linux - enough to qualify as a different OS IMO, since the API is different). Vim did win the war; there's still nothing better. IBM did win the war, and then shot themselves in th…

> Vim did win the war; there's still nothing better.

GNU Emacs is much better. It's easier to use and easier to extend.

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#233

Post by rodgerd » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:08 PM UTC

joelthelion wrote: post #104

mickeyp wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ten (edit: even five!) years ago I'd agree with you. Back then a source control system was a piece of software you used for keeping a versioned history of your work and to enable you to collaborate with coworkers or friends. It was a tool. Now? It's A Big Deal to a lot of younger developers. It is almost totemic. If it's not Git and (ideally) Github then.. it isn't worth hacking on?

>Now? It's A Big Deal to a lot of younger developers. It is almost totemic. If it's not Git and (ideally) Github then.. it isn't worth hacking on? Do you really want those guys on your project?

Well, since they're constantly told on HN that unless they're visible on Github they aren't getting a job, why are you blaming them?

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#234

Post by lmm » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:13 PM UTC

Crito wrote: post #221

lmm wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a happy git user, but tell me how this is supposed to work: there's me and one other guy working on a project. There are three logical branches: trunk, his branch, and my branch. In SVN there would be five source trees: those three on the server, his working copy and my working copy. But in git we end up with fifteen: the three on the server, my branch on my machine, his branch on my machine, master on my machine…

Set up a repo on a server somewhere and declare it to be the "central repo". You and the other developer pull/push from that repo only. In other words, ignore some of git's capabilities and treating git like SVN. Just because you can pull from your teammates, does not mean that you have to. I've been on a team that transitioned from SVN to Perforce, the again to Git, keeping the same workflow all the way through. It…

> Set up a repo on a server somewhere and declare it to be the "central repo"

That's the situation I described. We still have the problems I mentioned: sometimes we commit without pushing (particularly because we sometimes didn't set a branch to be remote-tracking and didn't realize this), and sometimes our branches are behind our copy-of-the-remote-branch because we pulled different branches (which leads to bogus merges in the history).

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#235

Post by Demiurge » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:16 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #223

Demiurge wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge effort worth that seems to be paying off quite handily. XNU seems like a competitive edge over the monolith FreeBSD, as far as desktop and mobile OS is concerned. FreeBSD has plenty of cool stuff, but in a completely different domain.

> XNU seems like a competitive edge over the monolith FreeBSD, as far as desktop and mobile OS is concerned. This seems a bit delusional. I don't think it's controversial to say that Apple's biggest differentiators exist at higher levels than kernel space. I'd go so far as to say that anyone who claims that Apple's success is rooted in XNU and that the same could not have been done with Linux or *BSD at the lowest la…

I don't know anyone saying Apple's success is rooted in any one thing. However, IOKit is very important, "common code for device drivers, this framework also provides power management, driver stacking, automatic configuration, and dynamic loading of drivers". Even if the entire OSX could have been implemented on top of Linux and FreeBSD reusing those kernels (and it does reuse FreeBSD for low level POSIX apis!), how productive would that have been? I honestly don't know, but I choose to trust what I read from the original developers.

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#236

Post by ableal » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:22 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #194

ableal wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, the URL seems exactly identical in both submissions, which are almost consecutive ( ...94, ...96). That probably means the duplicate detector has some delay on getting its past submissions data. The rate of submissions these days seems to average one a minute, but the delta on this pair may be different, and it is not apparent by now.

I can't tell now that the other one is dead, but I believe it's link was http: while this one's is https:. I use the "https everywhere" browser extension so when I copied the URL I probably got the upgraded one. I think that explains why the dup detector didn't catch it. I don't know why this story took off and the other died. Maybe the headline?

You're probably right, I only looked at the path.

Thanks for the followup.

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#237

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:22 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #194

ableal wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, the URL seems exactly identical in both submissions, which are almost consecutive ( ...94, ...96). That probably means the duplicate detector has some delay on getting its past submissions data. The rate of submissions these days seems to average one a minute, but the delta on this pair may be different, and it is not apparent by now.

I can't tell now that the other one is dead, but I believe it's link was http: while this one's is https:. I use the "https everywhere" browser extension so when I copied the URL I probably got the upgraded one. I think that explains why the dup detector didn't catch it. I don't know why this story took off and the other died. Maybe the headline?

[deleted]

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#238

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:23 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #194

ableal wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, the URL seems exactly identical in both submissions, which are almost consecutive ( ...94, ...96). That probably means the duplicate detector has some delay on getting its past submissions data. The rate of submissions these days seems to average one a minute, but the delta on this pair may be different, and it is not apparent by now.

I can't tell now that the other one is dead, but I believe it's link was http: while this one's is https:. I use the "https everywhere" browser extension so when I copied the URL I probably got the upgraded one. I think that explains why the dup detector didn't catch it. I don't know why this story took off and the other died. Maybe the headline?

[deleted]

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#239

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:23 PM UTC

ableal wrote: post #142

midas007 wrote: post #2

Duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6999094

Curiously, the URL seems exactly identical in both submissions, which are almost consecutive ( ...94, ...96). That probably means the duplicate detector has some delay on getting its past submissions data. The rate of submissions these days seems to average one a minute, but the delta on this pair may be different, and it is not apparent by now.

[deleted]

Re: Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

#240

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 9:23 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #194

ableal wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, the URL seems exactly identical in both submissions, which are almost consecutive ( ...94, ...96). That probably means the duplicate detector has some delay on getting its past submissions data. The rate of submissions these days seems to average one a minute, but the delta on this pair may be different, and it is not apparent by now.

I can't tell now that the other one is dead, but I believe it's link was http: while this one's is https:. I use the "https everywhere" browser extension so when I copied the URL I probably got the upgraded one. I think that explains why the dup detector didn't catch it. I don't know why this story took off and the other died. Maybe the headline?

[deleted]