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Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

sergioschuler.com

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Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#121

Post by tdumitrescu »

sergioschuler wrote: post #67
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #50

I want to shine some light on one side problem, scratched here: The problem today is (out of the perspective of a developer): To many companies rely on just "hire any (cheap) developer" to ramp up the product. I see it all the time: Quality is not asked for, many companies (specially in the web business) just want the cheapest developers. They search for a student (at best), because he is cheap and will just make a s…

I believe this is a marketing problem (from the developers). See, I am a non-tech founder, I don't understand why X is cheaper than Y. If I perceive the same benefit, I will get the cheapest one. (This is hypothetical, but not so much: I understand a bit of tech and even so I don't have so much clue on how to judge a developer besides what he shows me he had done).

This is tied in closely to the issue of technical debt. Developers often have a hard time explaining clearly to non-tech product/business types why "faster, cheaper, now" in terms of code will not end up being cheaper in the long run; but conversely, just as most of us can't go out and just buy a house without taking on debt, new founders don't have the resources to start out with top-tier teams working full-time for them. When it comes to deciding on compromises to make so that your product can actually get built and within a realistic timeframe, I'd say it makes sense to find someone with dev experience who can at least help advise you on how and whom to hire, red flags, etc. - and _trust_ that person, if you don't have the requisite knowledge and experience yourself.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#122

Post by sergioschuler »

guilloche wrote: post #105
enraged_camel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I am not a developer, but I believe having an idea -> finding a developer is the wrong flow. It should be like this: 1. Have the idea. 2. Get customers who give you real money to build this idea. 3. Get a developer by telling "I already have paying customers". Actually, I disagree. Even if you're not a developer, you should still strive to learn enough development such that you can push out the first version of the…

As a developer and solo founder, I just can not finish a serious project in one year. For example, it took me two years to get version 1 of torapp guilloche designer (www.torapp.info). We did not get consistent/significant customers and we need a new product to survive. To evaluate more ideas and to be familiar with respective areas took me another year easily (without deep knowledge in the area, how can you beat you…

Maybe your MVP could have less features?

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#123

Post by derefr »

jonnathanson wrote: post #96
robomartin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think sales skills are completely fungible across domains My experience across a fifteen year business confirms this. Year one I had to sell. As an engineer I was a horrible sales guy. A couple of my dealers took me under their wing and over approximately a year a made notable changes. Years later, as we grew, I had to hire sales people. That's when I learned the lesson. If someone is good about selling pro…

I agree. Sales is often domain-specific, and this becomes truer the longer you spend in any given domain. And sometimes a long list of great contacts is more of a liability than a benefit. You need someone who can call up anybody you need them to -- not just someone who's going to hit up his list every time. The people on the list might not even be the customers you want or need. Hell, who you need may change in two…

Wait, so, not having ever done sales, I'm not sure what you mean. What is in the set of "capital-S-Sales" that's not "salesmanship?"

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#124

Post by monkeyspaw »

usablebytes wrote: post #101

The last para - If there is just one thing you should learn, it is: Just speak to prospects and extract their pain, then sell the painkiller (before building the product). If they are willing to buy, do take their money and invest that money into building the product. Is that really possible? Making someone pay for a product that doesn't yet exist? How can you do that?

This concept really is the holy grail of people who like to talk about startups.

I think there are some mis-perceptions about the idea. Here is how I how found the concept useful, in my company.

Startups who focus on revenue rather than growth can use this technique as a success metric (duh). Rather than using active users, etc., as proxy metrics for success, this method is a very direct one to measure how marketable your idea is. Get one success banked, then you can start to optimize -- pretty neat!

However, it's also incredibly difficult to do. So the second purpose becomes this: a proxy to evaluate the importance (in your customers' eyes) of the problem you solve. If you're solving a problem that everyone in the banking industry desperately needs solved, they will be more willing to try something that isn't feature-complete (or in existence).

So while few people will actually buy your product before it exists, using that as the goal can help you in your business development. You can figure out the problem's importance (and, believe me, it's better to solve a hair on fire problem than to solve a minor inconvenience). You can get feedback from people who are actually willing to pay -- this signals they are probably your customer! (So it helps you prioritize feedback, and sort people you talk to into actual / window-shopper type customers).

What the gurus don't tell you is this is very difficult to actually accomplish, at first. But after several iterations, you can get valuable feedback from people who are closer to having skin in the game.

And, of course, there is the chance that someone will have such a big problem that they want to pay you to solve it right now. If you can find that big fish, and their problem is similar enough (or uses core technology sufficiently similar to your "productized" version), then you can partially pay to make the product. (This comes with the caveats about how you don't want to be a slave to a single customer, etc. But we're having luck developing our core technology in the process for the big customer, and will re-use it for our product.)

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#125

Post by avenger123 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #22
sergioschuler wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right on both comments! And additional comments: 1) I am not a developer, but I believe having an idea -> finding a developer is the wrong flow. It should be like this: 1. Have the idea. 2. Get customers who give you real money to build this idea. 3. Get a developer by telling "I already have paying customers". 2) Absolutely agree. When I say "I should build that", in fact what I wanted to say was…

>>I am not a developer, but I believe having an idea -> finding a developer is the wrong flow. It should be like this: 1. Have the idea. 2. Get customers who give you real money to build this idea. 3. Get a developer by telling "I already have paying customers". Actually, I disagree. Even if you're not a developer, you should still strive to learn enough development such that you can push out the first version of the…

I suspect the reason non-technical people have difficulty convincing developers isn't so much about respect but more to do with the idea itself and the person presenting it.

Its come to a point that hiring development staff for web based applications isn't that expensive if you focus on hiring people that aren't in North America and don't need to use the whiz bang language or framework (I would put even Ruby on Rails and Django in this) but instead use PHP.

What I do think is important for non-technical founders is to have an understanding of what software development actually involves, so that they can judge and critique the work. It's worth knowing why a company might quote you, $10K for some work versus another $50K. Is one company using PHP or ASP.NET? Does one company's quote include all tasks such as requirement's gathering, mock-ups, development and production deployment. Where does system testing and end user testing fit into all of it? What's the hosting costs after the fact. Are they using Rackspace, AWS or their own provider and charging $300 a month for it.

I think a smart person can take a good 30-50 hours and read up on all this and get a good grounding as there is no lack of materials to get this knowledge from. I don't need to know the intricate details of how to build a car to appreciate the manufacturing process for a car. We all know there are many makes and models of cars but the design and manufacturing, distribution and sales of cars follow similar patterns (not taking into account the new entrants such as Tesla).

As an added check, a non-technical founder should find a trusted technical person that can help guide the development of the product even if the technical person themselves won't build it.

I think doing this would go a long way to get something built and off the ground. It's easy for a lot of us who have grown up with technology and understand computers, the internet, programming languages, algorithms, software development etc. but for the non-technical person who grew up as a user of the tech not but not a tinkerer its hard to catch up and go beyond and build a product (even an MVP).

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#126

Post by Elizer0x0309 »

d0m wrote: post #95
Elizer0x0309 wrote: post #46

A business person trying to start a tech startup.... It's like a business person looking for musicians to start a band. This is beyond ridiculous. Either bring some skill to the table or go create a "business startup" and stop polluting the industry with yet another failed idea and even worse a "post mortem" of why it failed. PS: This includes Marketing, Managers as well as the Business peanut gallery.

Disagree.. tech startups needs a very good seller.. to hire employees, raise money, sell to customers. And developers are notoriously bad at selling!

Don't generalize. If anything sellers have drowned big tech companies with unwanted contracts, long term support of legacy products. You are driven by "making money" which is ultimate greed. Thanks but no thanks. I'm more than happy making one customer at a time happy then having you guys whore engineers out.

Sellers as the peanut gallery, should be kept in check.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#127

Post by Elizer0x0309 »

sergioschuler wrote: post #83
Elizer0x0309 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exhibit A. Everything wrong about this perspective. Disassociation and genericness down to a "T". How's that formula working for you?!

Nah, troll harder next time.

If you can't hear and handle the truth, then you will persistently and consistently fell. Even if you generate profits, that is not the end all, be all marker of success. After all, Microsoft is ever increasing its profits, yet it is polluting the world with products that are barely innovating.

But please, keep thanking the complacent comments that do nothing to better your case.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#128

Post by Elizer0x0309 »

wehadfun wrote: post #89
Elizer0x0309 wrote: post #46

A business person trying to start a tech startup.... It's like a business person looking for musicians to start a band. This is beyond ridiculous. Either bring some skill to the table or go create a "business startup" and stop polluting the industry with yet another failed idea and even worse a "post mortem" of why it failed. PS: This includes Marketing, Managers as well as the Business peanut gallery.

I have to disagree there is more to a business then a product. Somebody has to find customers, make sure there is a way to accept their money, ...

Yes, but sellers, business and marketing need to be driven by higher purpose then just "making more cash". We all like to make money, but that should not be the priority. Quality will eventually bring in money.

Re: Lessons learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and 0 revenue

#129

Post by Elizer0x0309 »

bloat wrote: post #84
Elizer0x0309 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love The Beatles.

I think the Monkees fit the bill of a "pop band manufactured by a business person" more than the Beatles do. And they're better.

A subjective comment. "Better". Their music has done nothing to move our species' art forward. If you are just going to release the same stuff as another band then you are stagnating evolution, move to the side!

Don't compare the two. The Beatles have ushered in new song writing, band lineup, tone setup and lyrical prowess. Incomparable. Do you even use your ears, or are you just regurgitating?

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