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The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

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101–110 of 138 posts

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#101
post #61

There are two major components to DMCA safe-harbor compliance. The first is that you honor takedown requests; unfortunately for software entrepreneurs, this seems to be the only DMCA component that is widely understood. The second major component is that you not operate your service with direct knowledge of infringement. A simple way to illustrate this is that if you have a screenshot of your application being used t…

What if I've never heard of Madonna? Does the law actually encode some sort of pop-knowledge into itself? If I see a screenshot of an apparently home-made video am I supposed to think "small band that probably intentionally released this video to get more attention = OK" or "probably a filter added by a popular band that doesn't need more attention = Remove"? This is ignoring jurisdiction, too. IIRC, AllOfMp3 operate…

What if I've never heard of Madonna? Does the law actually encode some sort of pop-knowledge into itself?

No, but the fact that the site owner is using these screenshots to advertise his service obligates him to do due diligence on the copyright status of those tracks. Coincidentally picking one of the most popular artists of the last quarter-century to promote your site rings a little hollow.

Your jurisdictional argument also doesn't hold water. First of all, the site owner was operating in the USA, so he's bound by US law. Second, buying a "blanket copyright" in Russia doesn't confer rights to sell content in other countries.

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#102
post #61

There are two major components to DMCA safe-harbor compliance. The first is that you honor takedown requests; unfortunately for software entrepreneurs, this seems to be the only DMCA component that is widely understood. The second major component is that you not operate your service with direct knowledge of infringement. A simple way to illustrate this is that if you have a screenshot of your application being used t…

+1 on tptacek's explanation.

> What I did was simply store links to music files hosted elsewhere on the internet and acted as a conduit for these music files, allowing people to search songs by title/artist and play/create playlists using my interface.

That's exactly why a lot music are not playable on the old turntable.fm. They are blocked even though they are searchable (which talks to various APIs as well?)

For someone who co-ran a popular BBS forum in the past with millions of Chinese users, I and my other admins got a lot of notices and threats to arrest us. I was also in my high school year as well. Just a few years ago. We didn't shut down the site, it still exists and is still pretty popular. We changed our domain name because it was somehow conflicting with another television company's name and we took down certain torrent files at their requests. We still allow people to upload these illegal contents but we just play nice. I guess we weren't the top players like PirateBay so we haven't been told that we must shut down. We just receive notices. But do play nice.

> I spent a lot of time building HypedMusic. I’ve learned a lot of really cool stuff along the way

You should talk to them. You should inform your users about this and think about future plans. Maybe instead of allowing them to search for illegal contents you can play a demo and link to iTune, soundcloud for purchase? If you have a lot of users you should look for partnership. With users, you should come up with new model. It will be tough, but think about it for a moment. Otherwise you have learned a lot by developing an app yourself. That's a plus already.

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can threaten to sue you, but only a lawyer is really qualified to tell you whether or not the threats are proper. In this case, the original poster is clearly toeing the legal line. IANAL, but it sounds like what he's doing is perfectly legal. Either way, if he cares about his website, he should seek legal counsel.

> In this case, the original poster is clearly toeing the legal line. If he was clearly toeing the legal line, he would have no legal risk. ( Toeing the line means "conforming to the rules".)

[deleted]

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#104
I had a bit similar experience. When I was 16 (so around 2008), I had a poker blog, just translating stuff from wikipedia and posting some random 'news'. It was in Lithuania (EU). A small blog, with about 300 daily visitors. A few months later, I got a letter from the government telling me that I was infringing some ambiguously worded gambling law. And they were requesting an official explanation what was I doing (I guess they just reworded testimony).

The idea was that you can blog about poker only if you are a licensed gambling company, and I was facing a fine of $2500-7000 (the blog had $0.00 income, and for the contrast, my parents were earning $1000/mo combined). It felt extremely unfair.

It scared the shit out of me. I had to go to the police station, didn't contact any lawyer, and wrote my 'explanation' telling that I was not making any money and did publish publicly available information and I am sorry.

After a month of sleepless nights, I got a letter saying that they decided not to take any further action and that's a warning. Well, it fucking warned me big time.

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#106
post #85
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could argue that, YouTube has maintained their safe harbour, and hence they're a reasonable entity. That's not how the reasonable person standard works. "Reasonable person" is a term of art. A reasonable person is a sort of thought experiment that's used often in law. We imagine a hypothetical person who is in most respects like the average person, and who makes sound judgments based on the information availabl…

Oh ok, I guess I have a lot to read up on, would you know any good free sources of case law? and/or anything interesting related to DMCA?

The PDF I linked to in my post above has a great deal of useful information. The commentary at the beginning is especially helpful.

If you're running a website where DMCA safe harbor protection is important, you'll want to discuss a compliance plan with your company lawyer.

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#107
Did you not consider hiring a lawyer? I know they cost money, but this sounds like it was a major investment of time for you. If you want it to ever be a successful business, you'd eventually have to put money into it. How did you pay for hosting?

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#108
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it's illegal to embed a track that's been uploaded by the copyright owner, as they can just disable embedding. I'm assuming it becomes illegal if the uploader didn't own the copyright and was uploading the track illegally. This is impossible to verify unless the owner of the copyright gives a notice, YouTube does all it can, if they can't catch this then how can a normal user do so.

Do you think Madonna uploaded those videos? I'm not asking "is it mathematically possible?" I'm asking "do you really think Madonna, or Madonna's agent, uploaded that video?" The court system very rarely works on the concept of "well, it could have been legit." If you buy a bunch of speakers 90% off out of the back of a van in an alley with their serial numbers scratched off, "well, it could have been legit" will not…

"Do you think Madonna uploaded those videos?

I'm not asking "is it mathematically possible?" I'm asking "do you really think Madonna, or Madonna's agent, uploaded that video?""

Isn't that what record companies do these days? I thought that was the idea behind the Vevo stuff. Between that and Youtube's audio fingerprinting, it seems reasonable to assume that if a pop star's song is on youtube, it is because their record company put it there.

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#109
post #67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has an incredibly sophisticated and powerful content-matching engine that does monitor what's being uploaded, and automatically checks new videos against a giant corpus of known copyrighted works This is above and beyond the requirements of the DMCA though. Doing this isn't what makes Youtube legal, it just attempts to appease copyright holders.

That's a dangerous oversimplification. Read about the billion-dollar Viacom / YouTube lawsuit, and how it was anything but a sure thing that YouTube would win, despite their DMCA protections.

Lawsuit came before DMCA. Lawsuit was filled in 97 and 98 was when DMCA was passed.

Re: The RIAA forced me to shut down a successful website/apps I built in high school

#110
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a dangerous oversimplification. Read about the billion-dollar Viacom / YouTube lawsuit, and how it was anything but a sure thing that YouTube would win, despite their DMCA protections.

Lawsuit came before DMCA. Lawsuit was filled in 97 and 98 was when DMCA was passed.

Viacom v YouTube was filed in 2007. YouTube didn't exist in 1997; it was founded in 2005. 1997 was before Napster even.
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