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Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

michael.richter.name

131–140 of 243 posts

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#131
I appreciate the author's opinions overall, so this is a nitpick of just one of his core arguments. I think he is inverting the value of certain kinds of questions. To me, Stack Overflow is valuable primarily for the simple answers to simple questions, and secondarily for the complex answers to hard questions.

As a software developer well into my second decade of professional experience, I maintain a small number of technologies at what you might call an expert level. These technologies shift in and out of focus depending on what my current projects are.

When I complete a project and don't use the technology for more than a year or so, I've found that I forget all of the nitty gritty stuff and remember all the big conceptual stuff.

For example, I recently returned to Java after several years of disuse. All the bit conceptual stuff that was really hard for me to pick up initially, like polymorphic behavior, multithreading, etc., was still there. The easy but nit-picky stuff was all gone. I'd forgotten when boxing happens and doesn't happen, the behavior of equals in reference vs value types, even where I'm supposed to put certain syntactic elements. Simple questions on StackOverflow to the rescue!

As another example, I did a large project involving SVG in the early 2000's and got to the point where I knew as much as there was to know about it. I recently did a quick one-off project that utilized SVG, and I found that I'd retained the big conceptual ideas, such as the behavior of the coordinate system, the hierarchy of shapes, viewports, groups, etc., but I'd totally forgotten a huge laundry list of practical nitty-gritty things about actually making an SVG experience work.

In the Java example I was embarking on a large project, so I hit the books and re-taught myself to fish again, because it was quite worth my time investment to start from the fundamentals and work my way back up. In the SVG example, I literally just wanted to do something in an afternoon, and I knew SVG could do it, and I wasn't going to do any SVG work after that. Hitting the books and teaching myself to fish in that scenario would have been a waste of time. So I plowed through and was helped immensely by the simple-question simple-answer Stack Overflow scenario.

Then there's a whole list of technologies that I really don't have the brain-space to keep abreast of, but I still need to use. For example I am not an expert at shell scripting, but on occasion I need to write one. Back to Stack Overflow and the simple answers to simple questions.

Before Stack Overflow I wouldn't have been in the dark--as a long-time Internet community member, I would have gone through the usual: find the right community with the most helpful people, hope the community has a search engine or is well indexed by Google, read through long lists of replies without a voting system or assessment of quality, rinse-repeat. Stack Overflow speeds that process up immensely.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#132
post #91

"In well over two years I have contributed nothing to StackOverflow: no questions, no answers, nothing. (Well, that's not true. When my score went over 10,000 I tried out the moderator powers for a couple of edits, just to test them out.) Over one third of my reputation was "earned" from me doing absolutely nothing for over two years." So what? Apparently his answers were valuable enough and saved the time (and nerve…

Ironically, the question you linked to is exactly the kind that gets closed so often on StackOverflow as being "not a real question" or some such. Thankfully, when they close something it doesn't get deleted.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#133

While OP makes some valid points (i.e. community receptivity), this is something that caught my attention: > StackOverflow is filled to the brim with people giving fishes. Perhaps. But those get only a few points. Joel Spolsky wrote about not only answering a specific domain question, but rather writing a comprehensive answer about some topic in a away that it becomes the default answer everyone reverts to when the q…

I only answer questions that aren't googlable. Edge cases in hedge libraries basically. I give comprehensive and detailed answers that reflect the hours of research I had to do. They get upvoted a few points every now and then.

I once answered a Java frameworks question with an opinion. It has gathered nearly a thousand points over the last few years.

The game is broken. Bad answers to stupid questions get all of the points and I raise an eyebrow every time a CV lands on my desk enumerating the candidates SO points.

But it's still a well optimised site that beat experts exchange, so it doesn't matter too much.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#134
post #122
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many good questions do you see that are "CLOSED AS NOT A REAL QUESTION"? The site is fine for what it is, but there's definitely a market for building a better StackOverFlow.

That annoys the heck out of me, because if it truly is not a real question, then the "general masses" of answer authors would naturally agree. Instead some deletionist authoritarian jerk needs to force his idea on everyone else, because obviously no one else is worthy enough to make a judgment. Why feel the need to force what they call the truth on everyone, if it is in fact the truth? Or more likely they're full of…

Build your leveller's idea of Stack Overflow, then, and let it compete on its merits against the one which already exists. I'll be interested to see the result.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#135

He doesn't have a problem with Stack Overflow, really. He has some loathing for his own practice of treating the site as a game and finding useless ways to rack up meaningless points. He never explained why he bothered to collect these points, but clearly one day he realized that this was pointless and decided to blame the site rather than himself. I go there now and then to answer questions. My latest answer[0], abo…

Another +70 for now in 2 hours on HN, not bad, hmm I should link some answers of mine here ;)

Coming back to the SO topic, I got my initial ~600 pts within just a few days on "who's first", but it's not fun to do it long term. Then got ~400 pts for Java trivia [1], now I usually just write my 2 cents when googling for something and finding the best answer not satisfactory.

Sometimes I also self-answer myself for certain things I think could be useful for others, or me-in-the-future e.g. [2]

[1] "What does the “+=” operator do in Java?" - it's more than x = x + y; http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7456462/what-does-the-ope...

[2] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5924937/lucene-custom-sco...

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#136
post #23

I've occasionally found, via google search, a good answer on SO for a question I had. But it's rare. I don't ever think to go there to search directly, and I don't participate in answering questions there. I find it's much more effective to simply read the documentation of the language/function/feature I'm having trouble with, than it is to try to formulate the precise phrasing of the question that will lead me to th…

...unless the subject of your inquiry is something like Angular, where the documentation is severely lagging the info available in their own Disqus comments and SO.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#137
post #69

DON'T TRUST ME BLINDLY: I work for Stack Exchange, so I'm totally biased. On the other hand, I left a lucrative career in finance for a lot less money here because I believe in what we're doing, so there's that. MOST IMPORTANTLY: I appreciate Michael's feedback, and he worries about a lot of the same things I do. Moreover, we are incredibly grateful for all he's done over the years - my honest belief is that his cont…

Yup, the real wedge was wrapping a free service in a really slick interface. Points are just icing.

Another poster made a very good point about voting ring vandals and spammers, but I'm concerned about "expiry dates". An increasing number of the top SO results in google are answers that were correct but are now wrong. Things will trundle along for another few years, but at some point the correct results will become un-googlable.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#138
Growing up, a good portion of my summer (and spring, and fall...) was spent helping out in my family's rather large garden.

Most of this involved rather tedious, repetitive labor. So to stave off boredom, we made up games to go along with it. "Fastest to finish hoeing a row of corn", "Most peas shelled in a minute", etc.

It helped. We got a lot more done, faster, and with less complaining because of it.

But... The games weren't really the goal, and no one ever thought otherwise: the point was the creation and preparation of food for the next year. If you "won" by chopping down all the corn or throwing out the unshelled peas, no one would think highly of you for doing so.

Too many people look at games - or especially "gamification" - as a silver bullet that will turn the efforts of lazy and unproductive players into gold... This is exceedingly naive. Any game played in bad faith will have disappointing results, whether the mechanics of that game involves throwing a ball around or answering programming questions.

Is that a good reason not to play? Hell no! Games are fun, and with the right players and attitude can be exceedingly rewarding. But you do need to keep some perspective, to remember at all times why you're playing.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#139
His whole analogy of teaching man a fish vs giving a him a fish ignores the cases where you are not a domain expert in something, aren't looking to be, and don't need to be and you just need some quick help from people who do this stuff day in and day out. But I agree wrt to e/t else.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#140
post #90
post #69

DON'T TRUST ME BLINDLY: I work for Stack Exchange, so I'm totally biased. On the other hand, I left a lucrative career in finance for a lot less money here because I believe in what we're doing, so there's that. MOST IMPORTANTLY: I appreciate Michael's feedback, and he worries about a lot of the same things I do. Moreover, we are incredibly grateful for all he's done over the years - my honest belief is that his cont…

Add a custom search option that can filter people by reputation level, or by question to answer ratio. I want to answer questions from people who are able to Google, and who are able to answer questions. Another thing: add a custom search option that can find tumbleweed questions. I asked about it here: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/14738/tumbleweed-que... But Jeff thought it was already implemented, when i…

You may be able to implement this yourself using the data explorer:

http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/new

You could do that as a direct step towards finding the questions you desire, as as a rhetorical move towards getting it implemented in SO.

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