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The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

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Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#201
post #155

One thing is true: whatever your phone is, the more complex, the more features, the more risks there are. I really don't see the advantages of having a handsized computer, really. The performance/battery/usability/cost compromises are not really making it worth it. Most people do a lot of text messaging, usual smartphones are not designed for it. Old school, classic cellphone do it pretty well. Why would you need the…

I made much the same arguments before I bought my first smartphone. Turns out they're a lot more useful than you notice when you're only looking for reasons to dislike the whole concept.

For an example from my own experience, I used to do a lot of contract IT work, both freelance and as part of a firm, often visiting several clients over the course of a day. Originally I'd keep track of everything in an old-fashioned spiral-bound pocket notebook, but dead trees are hard to grep, especially remotely, and at the rate at which I filled notebooks it got to be a real pain having to copy and distill everything worth keeping track of from the old one to the new one. I had an old-fashioned candybar phone, too, which worked well enough for phone calls and text messages, and if I had to, I could use it to talk a client through power-cycling a server and other similarly simple procedures, which was at least a little better than having to go out and do it myself, or back to the office where I could remote into the client's PDU.

So I bought an iPhone. Thus, with a modicum of effort, I gained a shared, always up-to-date calendar, providing both an agenda of upcoming events and a searchable record of what I'd done and when; an always-connected email client, providing both an easy means of keeping in touch while on the road and, again, a searchable record of past communications; a shared, collated, searchable collection of notes concerning every relevant detail of my various clients' operations; a shared, &c., collection of contact information for all my various clients and industry contacts; and, last but not least, an always-connected administrative terminal with which to remotely solve even relatively subtle and complex problems, as and when necessary, for clients who had urgent needs and for whom I could not fit an in-person emergency visit into my schedule.

No doubt all of this makes it sound as though I was a preposterously busy person, and for several years that's exactly what I was. My smartphone enabled me to streamline my efforts in a fashion which I had hardly imagined possible before I first laid hands on the means of so doing, to the extent that it made me able to get more work done, with less effort, than I had been able to accomplish before. If there is any purpose at all behind our species' longstanding habit of building interesting trinkets and gewgaws, "more work with less effort" is certainly the very soul of that purpose.

I do, though, like your "only frivolous people with frivolous purposes would ever have a smartphone" argument, though. I think that's the most sensible thing anyone has said in this whole thread. Certainly it is in no way redolent of, for example, someone who bravely defies his ignorance in order to declaim at length on a subject of which he has absolutely no relevant experience whatsoever.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#202
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cases like these you have to evaluate the probability of something bad happening times the magnitude of the harm (essentially the expected value). The NSA can do much more damage (excluding the fact that they can do similar damage even without having this information) than a random lowly criminal, however the likelihood they'll target a boring person such as me is much lower. So for me I'd be more worried about b.…

I'm insured against criminality. I'm on my own should the government decide to shit on me.

[deleted]

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/09/nsa-sabota...

Can you be a little more specific? Also, re: that article, is there any evidence that there are exploits placed by NSA or GHCQ that could be used by other adversaries? I hear this claim a lot, but haven't seen any evidence...

NSA paid RSA 10 million US-Dollar to use Dual_EC_DRBG in their products, a standard they forced into the standard with lots of known problems, NIST did it anyways.

So yeah they force backdoors.

If you still think you need to defend the NSA, you are not stupid or naive. You are evil.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#204
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know this headline generates traffic by being about the iPhone, but this is a minor point. I disagree, the article implies that Apple might (probably?) is helping them with their spying. This is not a minor point for me. I think it's very important to expose which tech companies are betraying their customers, and conversely which are not.

Jacob made this assertion in his talk but presented no evidence. He explicitly said he wanted to call out the companies because they should be held accountable if they were complicit in this. But no evidence was presented that any of the hardware companies were coordinating with the NSA. Given that jail breaking continues to exist, it is entirely possible that Apple and other companies are victims of security exploit…

> Jacob made this assertion in his talk but presented no evidence.

He based this assertion on an NSA slide that said 100% of iPhones could be tapped. In the rest of the talk there was frequent mention (in bulletpoints or even more interestingly graphs) of efficacy rates, and as I recall most were between 50-80 percent. Apple was the only slide cited with 100% which is why this was noteworthy.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#206

Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine. I've heard the arguments about how you should care, even if you don't have anything to hide. And I find them persuasive on one level and simultaneously unengaging on another. By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive. The one argument against what I've written that…

> Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine.

Hmm. You know what? I care. I don't want the NSA reading your stuff, because they're doing it in my name. I believe they're violating our 4th and 1st Amendment rights, and I want it to stop, for me and for you.

If the government is violating our rights, the damage goes beyond anything resulting from the actual violations. The real damage is that we have a government that does that.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jacob made this assertion in his talk but presented no evidence. He explicitly said he wanted to call out the companies because they should be held accountable if they were complicit in this. But no evidence was presented that any of the hardware companies were coordinating with the NSA. Given that jail breaking continues to exist, it is entirely possible that Apple and other companies are victims of security exploit…

> Jacob made this assertion in his talk but presented no evidence. He based this assertion on an NSA slide that said 100% of iPhones could be tapped. In the rest of the talk there was frequent mention (in bulletpoints or even more interestingly graphs) of efficacy rates, and as I recall most were between 50-80 percent. Apple was the only slide cited with 100% which is why this was noteworthy.

As apple has few phones with large quantities of users, I am not surprised. I think you'll find similar penetration levels for any phone with lots of users

It's a resources/efficacy decision on the part of the NSA for targeting.

It's the same reason there were "no" mac viruses for many years: there were far more windows users to target.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jacob made this assertion in his talk but presented no evidence. He explicitly said he wanted to call out the companies because they should be held accountable if they were complicit in this. But no evidence was presented that any of the hardware companies were coordinating with the NSA. Given that jail breaking continues to exist, it is entirely possible that Apple and other companies are victims of security exploit…

> Jacob made this assertion in his talk but presented no evidence. He based this assertion on an NSA slide that said 100% of iPhones could be tapped. In the rest of the talk there was frequent mention (in bulletpoints or even more interestingly graphs) of efficacy rates, and as I recall most were between 50-80 percent. Apple was the only slide cited with 100% which is why this was noteworthy.

Further add context:

Charlie Miller (that apple 0day guy) is ex NSA. In 2009 or so, he made huge waves with his iphone hacks.

I also find it appaling how widely revered charlie is. In this context, he is clearly an example of the kind of hacker we should be fucking shaming.

No more free bugs finds its logical conclusion. 0xcharlie: NSA stooge.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Going by how fast they passed the bill, and how few details were offered, you can't really blame most people for "not knowing"." True, but perhaps someday we can learn to not advocate the passage of bills in such a short amount of time that representatives themselves do not have a chance to read or digest them, much less have debate about the specific contents. I say perhaps because I suspect we'll continue to see m…

This sounds great in principle, but it would turn the way congress does business upside down (maybe not a bad thing). I've heard stories about hundreds or thousands of pages being added to bills by staff just minutes before a vote. I suspect the way it works is that the legislators tell their staffs what they want the bills to do, rely on them, and have no interest in actually reading the result (and who can blame th…

> I suspect the way it works is that the legislators tell their staffs what they want the bills to do

Many bills today (perhaps most) are not written by legislators and their staff, but rather by lobbyists. That might have been the case since forever (if the movie "The Aviator" is not too dramatized, this has been true in the 1930's as well)

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#210

"one question has been paramount for privacy advocates: How do we, as a society, balance the need for security against the rights to privacy and freedom? " I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not. Giving total control to Stalin meant hundred of millions of Russians got murdered in terror, giving total power to Hitler or Mussolini from demo…

Stalin is a bad example. By forcing industrialization on the ussr, he has increased average life span of the population by something like 15 years ( measures in 1958) and enabled the ussr to defend itself against the Germany which saved countless lives, and increased living standards, education, female equality greatly. In his case, and the case of Chinese communism, it somewhat debatable whether a strong government…

You ignore the damage Stalin did to the Russian armed forces with his paranoid purges. Russian defences would have been stronger, and fewer would have died, if Stalin had died a few decades earlier.
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