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The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

forbes.com

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Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#121

Post by tomelders »

mden wrote: post #91
joelhaus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an interesting question GP raises... Who would you be more worried about having access to your email account and why? a. NSA b. a random criminal (unaffiliated with government) For me, the answer is not even close, but I'm more interested in understanding how others on HN process this.

In cases like these you have to evaluate the probability of something bad happening times the magnitude of the harm (essentially the expected value). The NSA can do much more damage (excluding the fact that they can do similar damage even without having this information) than a random lowly criminal, however the likelihood they'll target a boring person such as me is much lower. So for me I'd be more worried about b.…

I'm insured against criminality. I'm on my own should the government decide to shit on me.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#122

Post by RyanZAG »

blub wrote: post #114
RyanZAG wrote: post #82

Aren't we missing a critical point here?? > "The initial release of DROPOUTJEEP will focus on installing the implant via closed access methods." [2007] OK, we knew this much already. I remember seeing a number of stories on how law enforcement can pull data off an iPhone, etc. Not really much new here. > "A remote installation capability will be pursued for a future release" Here is the interesting bit. You don't put…

Enterprise profiles offer complete control over an iPhone in iOS7, including bypassing password, installing apps and so on. In theory one needs to install a profile by hand, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do it remotely with the right vulnerabilities. Some devices can come from the factory with an ID that auto-enrolls them with an EDM profile, including after OS reinstalls. I don't remember if Apple c…

Yes, definitely. This is what I was trying to get at - the idea that they still need exploits as other comments are talking about is incredibly unlikely. With things like iCloud, centralized device management, remotely installable admin certificates, google play services, etc. it is very unlikely that the NSA is even considering using any kind of exploit anymore.

When the NSA wants to use your phone, you don't have to worry about them exploiting something. A special packet will come down using one of the many available 'official backdoors' on your device to redirect your device to an NSA server.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#123

Post by netcan »

forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #101

"one question has been paramount for privacy advocates: How do we, as a society, balance the need for security against the rights to privacy and freedom? " I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not. Giving total control to Stalin meant hundred of millions of Russians got murdered in terror, giving total power to Hitler or Mussolini from demo…

I don't even think you need to go that far, with extreme examples of totalitarianism.

I'm not American, so obviously I'm less emotionally involved. My view on it is that the US is not under any meaningful threat of terrorism. 9/11 was big, but on the scale of decades it is still far down the likelihood list of violent ways an American may be harmed. Murder, Rape and other assaults are a reality too, a far more likely reality.

The real "solution" is "ignore terrorism, it's not a big threat." That's contrary to human nature, but I think it is the most rational response.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#124

Post by digitalengineer »

netcan wrote: post #123
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #101

"one question has been paramount for privacy advocates: How do we, as a society, balance the need for security against the rights to privacy and freedom? " I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not. Giving total control to Stalin meant hundred of millions of Russians got murdered in terror, giving total power to Hitler or Mussolini from demo…

I don't even think you need to go that far, with extreme examples of totalitarianism. I'm not American, so obviously I'm less emotionally involved. My view on it is that the US is not under any meaningful threat of terrorism. 9/11 was big, but on the scale of decades it is still far down the likelihood list of violent ways an American may be harmed. Murder, Rape and other assaults are a reality too, a far more likely…

Yes. Let's put the threat of terrorism in perceptive: In 2010, 13,186 people died in terrorist attacks worldwide, while 31,672 people were killed with firearms in America alone, reports CNN’s Samuel Burke. http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/15/more-americans-kill...

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#125

Post by pizza234 »

netcan wrote: post #123
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #101

"one question has been paramount for privacy advocates: How do we, as a society, balance the need for security against the rights to privacy and freedom? " I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not. Giving total control to Stalin meant hundred of millions of Russians got murdered in terror, giving total power to Hitler or Mussolini from demo…

I don't even think you need to go that far, with extreme examples of totalitarianism. I'm not American, so obviously I'm less emotionally involved. My view on it is that the US is not under any meaningful threat of terrorism. 9/11 was big, but on the scale of decades it is still far down the likelihood list of violent ways an American may be harmed. Murder, Rape and other assaults are a reality too, a far more likely…

I think it's very reasonable to put things in proportion (eg. car accidents kill way more people than terrorists), but restricting the perspective on terrorism, as long as US maintains the military offensive, there will be always such threat.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#126

Post by x0054 »

hershel wrote: post #113
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #101

"one question has been paramount for privacy advocates: How do we, as a society, balance the need for security against the rights to privacy and freedom? " I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not. Giving total control to Stalin meant hundred of millions of Russians got murdered in terror, giving total power to Hitler or Mussolini from demo…

Stalin is a bad example. By forcing industrialization on the ussr, he has increased average life span of the population by something like 15 years ( measures in 1958) and enabled the ussr to defend itself against the Germany which saved countless lives, and increased living standards, education, female equality greatly. In his case, and the case of Chinese communism, it somewhat debatable whether a strong government…

As someone borne in the USSR, I am sad that Stalin lived to an old age and died without suffering. If there is hell, I hope he is in it right now.

I would further never trust any statistics from the old USSR. For instance, the communists were able to dramatically "reduce" infant mortality by simply not recording births until the first birthday, when the child became one.

If you think Stalin was good for USSR you are an ignorant idiot. I am sorry to be so touchy on the subject, but Stalin killed more of my people than Hitler.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#127

Post by flueedo »

GrinningFool wrote: post #98
allochthon wrote: post #12

Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine. I've heard the arguments about how you should care, even if you don't have anything to hide. And I find them persuasive on one level and simultaneously unengaging on another. By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive. The one argument against what I've written that…

Disagree completely but upvoted because it's an opinion that I think should be seen. Your comments effectively represent the 99.999% of the population that doesn't pay attention to any of this, except to what small amount they're fed via "paranoid" tech friends (and they all wear tinfoil hats, so whatever), nightly news and 60 minutes.

I agree. And also it's been delightful to read the counterarguments to his comment.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#128

Post by darkbot »

x0054 wrote: post #126
hershel wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stalin is a bad example. By forcing industrialization on the ussr, he has increased average life span of the population by something like 15 years ( measures in 1958) and enabled the ussr to defend itself against the Germany which saved countless lives, and increased living standards, education, female equality greatly. In his case, and the case of Chinese communism, it somewhat debatable whether a strong government…

As someone borne in the USSR, I am sad that Stalin lived to an old age and died without suffering. If there is hell, I hope he is in it right now. I would further never trust any statistics from the old USSR. For instance, the communists were able to dramatically "reduce" infant mortality by simply not recording births until the first birthday, when the child became one. If you think Stalin was good for USSR you are…

While this might be true, as a European I'm eternally thankful for USSR saving us from the claws of nazi tyranny.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#129

Post by this_user »

forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #101

"one question has been paramount for privacy advocates: How do we, as a society, balance the need for security against the rights to privacy and freedom? " I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not. Giving total control to Stalin meant hundred of millions of Russians got murdered in terror, giving total power to Hitler or Mussolini from demo…

> "I hear this fallacy question again an again. It implies that giving total power to gobertment is "security". It is not."

You seemingly don't understand this abstract trade-off the correct way. Nowhere did anybody state that giving total power to the government would be the way to gain total security. You could just as well create a giant prison run by a private corporation and put every single citizen permanently in a cell. Then you'd have basically no freedom and almost total security without any government involvement.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#130

Post by andreyf »

StavrosK wrote: post #116
andreyf wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> force backdoors unlikely > they are legally bound to publicly lie about it source?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/09/nsa-sabota...

Can you be a little more specific? Also, re: that article, is there any evidence that there are exploits placed by NSA or GHCQ that could be used by other adversaries? I hear this claim a lot, but haven't seen any evidence...
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