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Haiku meets 9th processor

haiku-os.org

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Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#41

Post by agildehaus »

nknighthb wrote: post #33
agildehaus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$41k isn't much, was split between two developers, and most every penny of that came from community donations. Maybe it's out of hobbyist status, but this is still far far below how much Be spent developing BeOS each year.

Nobody is saying it's unreasonable amount or shouldn't have been spent, and I consider the money's origin utterly irrelevant. But it is not a trivial amount of money. Unless he moved recently, I believe Ingo Weinhold lives in Germany. His income for this year just from Haiku work exceeds the median German household income. I'm sure he's not working at market rate, but he could be said to be making a living off it. My…

I agreed with you that it's likely out of "hobbyist". But you said "way" out of hobbyist, and that's not true at all.

Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#42

Post by GuiA »

mortyseinfeld wrote: post #17
thaumaturgy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW Debian stable (esp. with KDE IMO) is now very close to this. I have no patience at all for a fiddly daily machine, and for the most part I've been pretty happy with it. There are probably other Linux distributions (Mint?) that can fill this niche. I only mention this because, if people are looking for something right now, setting aside a little bit of time to try out Debian stable or Mint might be worthwhile. Bu…

The people that used BeOS and look forward to Haiku are going to disagree with you on that. I'm guessing that they look at Linux distros as a hodge-podge of various libraries without any cohesive philosophy.

Yeah, that's my position. I use OSX at work and Arch at home; and while I love Linux, it is quite messy. (Which works to its advantage in many ways- it wouldn't be that powerful and flexible if it weren't)

Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#43

Post by cturner »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #10
GuiA wrote: post #9

I have a fantasy that 20 years from now, Haiku will be the operating system of choice for hackers with design sensibilities (NB: I didn't say graphic design ) who want a powerful, flexible, programmable OS that just works and requires minimal configuration. This niche is currently filled by OSX, but I think it's slowly falling out of favor because of Apple's increasing focus on the end user and "iOSifying" everything…

FWIW Debian stable (esp. with KDE IMO) is now very close to this. I have no patience at all for a fiddly daily machine, and for the most part I've been pretty happy with it. There are probably other Linux distributions (Mint?) that can fill this niche. I only mention this because, if people are looking for something right now, setting aside a little bit of time to try out Debian stable or Mint might be worthwhile. Bu…

Desktops like KDE can preview images in a directory. But BeOS was on another level with this stuff.

Imagine if (1) your filesystem was a high-performance nosql database; (2) your desktop was just a thin layer around this, optimised for navigating around and querying the stores. But NoSQL has never since been so smooth and beautiful to interact with.

The mail system: a daemon drops files in a directory and makes a ding sound. The user then just browses the directory containing the mail messages. (The file explorer detected the metadata and displays this as columns.) When you double-click on an icon, you get a special-case form that displays the contents of the data. http://archive.arstechnica.com/reviews/3q99/bemail/bemail-sc...

If a unix were to do this stuff, it'd stop being unix: metadata on files is incompatible with the everything-is-a-stream-of-data philosophy. ryanweal writes below, "think everything is an icon instead of everything is a file". Brilliant. Haiku team should take "everything is an icon" as their motto.

Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#44

Post by JoeAltmaier »

The issues of priority and starvation are large issues. I see the OP implemented another ad-hoc behavior, which I predict will move the issue to another place but not eradicate it.

I believe priorities are a sucky way to express the developers desire to perform some tasks in a low-latency manner, while others are ok to delay for a larger time. Maybe latency would be a better thread parameter than priority. It has the advantage of being a hard metric, one you can easily measure and adjust your algorithm against.

But latency is slippery. Do you mean time-to-first-execution, or time-to-completion? Completion of what? The OS would have to be aware of some units of processing (message digestion time?). This is not a bad idea. I'm all in favor of the OS having a more complete model of what the developer is trying to accomplish.

Anyway my 2C worth.

Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#45

Post by robbs »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #44

The issues of priority and starvation are large issues. I see the OP implemented another ad-hoc behavior, which I predict will move the issue to another place but not eradicate it. I believe priorities are a sucky way to express the developers desire to perform some tasks in a low-latency manner, while others are ok to delay for a larger time. Maybe latency would be a better thread parameter than priority. It has the…

I was just reading this last night and thought you might find it interesting: https://lkml.org/lkml/2010/12/5/21

Con Kolivas, author of a CPU scheduler for the Linux kernel, had a very similar idea.

Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#46

Post by wmf »

girvo wrote: post #40
wmf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to remove hardcoded limits, but everything I see in this post looks like it was implemented in Linux and FreeBSD years ago. I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere, but it's not that clear why Haiku has its own kernel at all.

Because it can. Also, because doing things differently is fun. It's API is something to behold, and besides, would you say the same thing about Plan 9, or BSD, etc?

The BeOS user API is interesting. It's not clear to me that the kernel is actually different in any appreciable way.

Re: Haiku meets 9th processor

#47

Post by pohl »

mortyseinfeld wrote: post #17
thaumaturgy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW Debian stable (esp. with KDE IMO) is now very close to this. I have no patience at all for a fiddly daily machine, and for the most part I've been pretty happy with it. There are probably other Linux distributions (Mint?) that can fill this niche. I only mention this because, if people are looking for something right now, setting aside a little bit of time to try out Debian stable or Mint might be worthwhile. Bu…

The people that used BeOS and look forward to Haiku are going to disagree with you on that. I'm guessing that they look at Linux distros as a hodge-podge of various libraries without any cohesive philosophy.

It has a cohesive philosophy, but the philosophy says nothing about interesting matters like tradeoffs, but rather just licensing. Yawn.
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