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The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

forbes.com

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Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#31

Post by neuralk »

allochthon wrote: post #12

Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine. I've heard the arguments about how you should care, even if you don't have anything to hide. And I find them persuasive on one level and simultaneously unengaging on another. By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive. The one argument against what I've written that…

> By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive.

Why? The possibility of a turnkey fascist state is very real. You need only look to history to see how many leaders, once elected, completely ignored all laws and constitutions and legislating bodies to declare martial law and institute a tyranny. How can you say that you aren't worried about that, and the power of a surveillance apparatus in the hands of such a leader?

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#32

Post by roin »

Not only is the slide from 2008, but it also says it requires "close access methods" and "remote installation will be pursued for a future release." In other words, they need physical access to your device. If we think that the NSA can't compromise a device after gaining physical access, well then I think we should be scared about the competence of the NSA.

I don't have the patience to watch Appelbaum's hour long talk, but unless he has something far more impressive than these documents then he's just another activist who will willfully mislead in order to advance his cause.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#33

Post by joshfraser »

samstave wrote: post #20
wyager wrote: post #11

This is from a very old version of iOS (2007). We don't know if this is still true. Regardless, I can say for a fact that there are exploits for all cell phone platforms. iOS exploits are by far the hardest to find. An iOS remote execution 0day will easily fetch $250k. I've seen one go for $600k. For an Android remote exec 0day, you're looking at closer to $50k. Even if the NSA doesn't have these on hand, they can ce…

>I've seen one go for $600k. Without revealing the actual site/method/whatever; can you please explain how the 0day exploit market works? I can make basic assumptions that it is deep-web-forums/TOR/Whatever... but can you enlighten me as to how one might go about selling/buying such an exploit?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/03/23/shoppin...

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#34

Post by wyager »

samstave wrote: post #20
wyager wrote: post #11

This is from a very old version of iOS (2007). We don't know if this is still true. Regardless, I can say for a fact that there are exploits for all cell phone platforms. iOS exploits are by far the hardest to find. An iOS remote execution 0day will easily fetch $250k. I've seen one go for $600k. For an Android remote exec 0day, you're looking at closer to $50k. Even if the NSA doesn't have these on hand, they can ce…

>I've seen one go for $600k. Without revealing the actual site/method/whatever; can you please explain how the 0day exploit market works? I can make basic assumptions that it is deep-web-forums/TOR/Whatever... but can you enlighten me as to how one might go about selling/buying such an exploit?

It's not really a huge secret. I'm sure you could do a little digging and find out what's what. But that said, here's a run-down of the market:

There are lone ranger types and small groups that churn out a few exploits. These guys (the small groups) go through trusted middlemen (usually via encrypted email), who buy the exploits at a discount. Now the middleman has a collection of 0days that he can sell to established customers, which might be government or criminal organizations. Sometimes the organizations want exclusive rights to an 0day (to prevent it getting leaked and patched), sometimes they don't.

On the other, less sketchy, side of things, there are companies that do more or less the same thing. They do the same kind of vulnerability research, but a lot of the time it's on behalf of the company whose product they're trying to hack, or possibly a government organization. They don't usually go through middlemen; they just work directly with the government or company. They can't and don't do anything obviously illegal, which limits the amount of stuff they can make, but obviously sticking to legal activities has its benefits. Sometimes legality is a little fuzzy, but these groups try to tread lightly.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#35

Post by jbergstroem »

samstave wrote: post #14

So here is a complete anecdotal suspicion: I have had the iPhone since the first day of release. I have gone through 16 physical devices over that period (due to me breaking them a lot and going through several employers where I had never purchased my own phone since (well before) it was released). I am currently, for the first time in a long time, on my own personal device; an iPhone 4. I upgraded it to iOS7 when it…

Complete bogus - but lets play: If you were the NSA; why would you even hint to the user that you were taking screenshots? Its not like the blink animation is tucked away from software control.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#36

Post by parag_c_mehta »

electic wrote: post #5
marveller wrote: post #2

Humm... I was going to buy the new iPhone, this changed my mind. Maybe I should just get a feature phone instead.

All the phones are exploited. I doubt it matters.

True but phones with highest market share are more susceptible to the phones with least market share.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#37

Post by alan_cx »

allochthon wrote: post #12

Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine. I've heard the arguments about how you should care, even if you don't have anything to hide. And I find them persuasive on one level and simultaneously unengaging on another. By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive. The one argument against what I've written that…

I completely disagree, but I have voted you up. You represent normal people. Those of us who care are the weirdos.

I've given up. Whats the point? Frankly, if I knew I needed actual privacy, I'd not use anything electronic, and go olde skool. That's all I need to know now. I've told everyone I know and / or care about. Its now up to them.

Get used to it, Big Brother has been here for a while, is staying, and will get stronger.

Just, I wont be listening in the future when it gets really out of hand. I dont expect anyone to come bleating to me if something goes wrong.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#38

Post by allochthon »

blake8086 wrote: post #22
allochthon wrote: post #12

Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine. I've heard the arguments about how you should care, even if you don't have anything to hide. And I find them persuasive on one level and simultaneously unengaging on another. By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive. The one argument against what I've written that…

Hey, can you post your email username/password here so we can all read your mail?

I worry about random people on the Internet having access to my information about 1000 times more than I do the NSA.

Re: The NSA Reportedly Has Total Access To The Apple iPhone

#39

Post by alan_cx »

girvo wrote: post #24
allochthon wrote: post #12

Honestly, I don't really care. The NSA can read whatever they want of mine. I've heard the arguments about how you should care, even if you don't have anything to hide. And I find them persuasive on one level and simultaneously unengaging on another. By contrast, the parallels to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and living in a turnkey fascist state are most unpersuasive. The one argument against what I've written that…

Fair enough. I do care. So, which of us matters more?

The majority.

Which, as it turns out, I don't think is you or me.

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