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Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

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Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#31
post #22

I've been following redfin since their early days and was very excited by their business model. They were featured on 60 minutes about a 1-2 years ago too, which helped them gain some mainstream momentum. The real estate industry, specifically residential real estate, is in the process of rebooting. A lot of the legwork that agents were doing in the past can now be accomplished by the buyer/seller and much of the inf…

I might just be dealing with a particularly bad commercial broker right now, but he is all about covering his behind and refusing to do anything beyond his bare minimum, that is to say, the only thing he's ever told me about phase 1 ESAs is a piece of paper detailing my responsibilities in general. Which, well, my lender and other people have already told me about. He also told me to go figure out all the other legal…

Ouch! That guy sounds like total asshole, to say the least! Definitely not doing his job and does not deserve your time and business.

My experiences with commercial agents has been relegated to the broker that we have been using for over a 10 year period.

I agree though, a redfin type service will also evolve and take shape for commercial properties. However, from the commercial side of things, a lot more due diligence needs to be done (depending on the property type) as opposed to buying a home. And often times many 'good' commercial properties never make it to a listing service like loopnet etc.

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might just be dealing with a particularly bad commercial broker right now, but he is all about covering his behind and refusing to do anything beyond his bare minimum, that is to say, the only thing he's ever told me about phase 1 ESAs is a piece of paper detailing my responsibilities in general. Which, well, my lender and other people have already told me about. He also told me to go figure out all the other legal…

Ouch! That guy sounds like total asshole, to say the least! Definitely not doing his job and does not deserve your time and business. My experiences with commercial agents has been relegated to the broker that we have been using for over a 10 year period. I agree though, a redfin type service will also evolve and take shape for commercial properties. However, from the commercial side of things, a lot more due diligen…

I wish I could ignore him and deal with someone else but there's a whole culture of exclusivity that seems to exist around these things. Not to mention it's hard to find anyone better in the first place, since they all seem to be the same give or take very little. I'm willing to deal with him for the property in question though, it's just that good.

Redfin for commercial real estate would be complicated pricing and service-wise because of what you mention and more issues unique to commercial deals, but I think it could have as big of an impact as Redfin itself has had for residential homes.

And oh, loopnet+something like redfin? That would be amazing...

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You Win :) That's just a really sensible solution to this "problem".

Really? The gov setting the rate is the most sensible solution? It may have worked out well in this case, but that's an awfully slippery slope. I couldn't agree more that the commissions themselves are absurdly high, I just tend to think the gov's role should be to foster a competitive environment that would allow the market to arrive at a fair rate rather than picking it themselves

Well, how do you foster an environment where the market would arrive at fair rate?

Without any control, it seems like the rates will get quite high.

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#34
post #17

The redfin UI needs to be massively cloned for location based services. Honestly, I love craigslist, but when I'm looking for houses to rent, I want to specify a polygon on a map. Maybe it's just me.

While it doesn't allow you to draw a polygon, www.padmapper.com does give you a Google maps representation of Craigslist listings. The potential downside I see with this involves listings that include intersections or general locations instead of exact addresses; I'm not sure what the site does in that scenario.

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#35
post #22

I've been following redfin since their early days and was very excited by their business model. They were featured on 60 minutes about a 1-2 years ago too, which helped them gain some mainstream momentum. The real estate industry, specifically residential real estate, is in the process of rebooting. A lot of the legwork that agents were doing in the past can now be accomplished by the buyer/seller and much of the inf…

I might just be dealing with a particularly bad commercial broker right now, but he is all about covering his behind and refusing to do anything beyond his bare minimum, that is to say, the only thing he's ever told me about phase 1 ESAs is a piece of paper detailing my responsibilities in general. Which, well, my lender and other people have already told me about. He also told me to go figure out all the other legal…

I agree the guy sounds like a condescending ass, and I think maybe you should file a complaint.

That said, he MAY have a point about changing the wording on the legal document. Most states have had strict laws about real estate professionals changing the wording on contracts since the '50s or '60s, believe it or not. In most states, brokers and salespersons are only allowed to fill in blanks on printed form contracts that are 'customarily used' (usually defined as drafted or pre-approved by the local bar association) and to insert or delete items only at the direction of the principal in the course of negotiations. While the last part sounds like it allows what you want, it is very easy for the broker to get sued for doing these insertions and deletions, because almost anything they say when this is happening can be construed to be the "unauthorized practice of law." And when I say "get sued" I don't necessarily mean by you. It was complaints and lawsuits from bar associations that led to these restrictive laws...the attorneys didn't want more competitors for basic services, just like they have sued internet companies that are selling legal documents such as wills. Anyway, many brokers are advised to completely avoid changing the wording on contracts. E&O insurers sometimes even write stricter guidelines brokers have to follow in these matters in order to get covered under insurance policies. And the broker's company may also have its own policies.

BTW, depending on where you're located, there ARE companies that are more on the Redfin end of the spectrum and that have Loopnet-ish sites.

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might just be dealing with a particularly bad commercial broker right now, but he is all about covering his behind and refusing to do anything beyond his bare minimum, that is to say, the only thing he's ever told me about phase 1 ESAs is a piece of paper detailing my responsibilities in general. Which, well, my lender and other people have already told me about. He also told me to go figure out all the other legal…

I agree the guy sounds like a condescending ass, and I think maybe you should file a complaint. That said, he MAY have a point about changing the wording on the legal document. Most states have had strict laws about real estate professionals changing the wording on contracts since the '50s or '60s, believe it or not. In most states, brokers and salespersons are only allowed to fill in blanks on printed form contracts…

Thanks for the interesting response.

Most of the changes were not really about wording, more about the timeline on which certain contingencies were supposed to be met and which boxes should have been checked, which were just mostly blanks on printed forms. The biggest one though and the one that bothered me was a wording change to a contingency involving financing that everyone that had seen the document except for the broker had told me was just not something I could do as-written. I wanted it changed. If he had been upfront about his reluctance to change it because he was trying to cover his ass, that would have been great. If he had just let me change it like I did eventually because I wasn't going to sign anything otherwise, that would have been great. It's really the 'condescending ass' part and that we took (in all, over) 4 hours arguing over a single line that really annoyed me because it was not necessary...or at least, he couldn't explain why he didn't want it changed at all.

Anyway, I'm in southern california. I've found plenty of loopnet-ish sites, but none that are like redfin for commercial property or businesses...

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the guy sounds like a condescending ass, and I think maybe you should file a complaint. That said, he MAY have a point about changing the wording on the legal document. Most states have had strict laws about real estate professionals changing the wording on contracts since the '50s or '60s, believe it or not. In most states, brokers and salespersons are only allowed to fill in blanks on printed form contracts…

Thanks for the interesting response. Most of the changes were not really about wording, more about the timeline on which certain contingencies were supposed to be met and which boxes should have been checked, which were just mostly blanks on printed forms. The biggest one though and the one that bothered me was a wording change to a contingency involving financing that everyone that had seen the document except for t…

Ah..understood. He was in the wrong.

One of the issues with having a commercial or business broker acting like Redfin is that there are different laws about compensation for commercial real estate than there are for residential real estate. (Commercial agents and brokers have more rights regarding how long, how much, and under what circumstances they are to be paid, for example. This is, for the most part, to protect brokers since these deals are much more complicated and they can potentially invest months of their time and hundreds of thousands of dollars marketing a property or doing due diligence, only to have the deal fall through at the last minute.) In any case, there is more legislation you would have to get around to do a commercial Redfin. I know of a few companies that have tried, but they all went out of business because of expenses or legal issues.

BTW, most consumers don't realize it, but there are roughly a dozen states that have made it illegal for brokers to offer rebates to consumers AT ALL, whether residential or commercial. Sometimes it isn't the real estate companies themselves that are stifling competition and innovation.

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#38
I was going to try to respond to a bunch of points people made here and on the Techcrunch site about the Redfin story, but unfortunately I didn't have the time to do individual responses while it was still a relatively active thread. So, instead, I'm going to just make a bitch list here now, in an attempt to start a new discussion. 'Cuz, you know, bitch lists are so productive ;-) Here is what I've started with, in roughly ascending order of pissed-off-edness:

4. I'm pissed at Redfin.

Redfin is not that innovative. I think Glenn is a good guy, and a fast learner, but there are better real estate brokerages out there. What do I mean by "better"? I mean companies that save the consumer even MORE money, offer BETTER customer service, don't cut corners or take advantage of OTHER professionals to save money, and have business models that better align their interests with the consumer. I think Redfin is a move in the right direction, but I'm sick of hearing about their "innovation." They're not doing anything other companies haven't already done - they're mainly just doing it more vocally. This all may come across as jealousy or sour grapes from a competitor. It is. I'm jealous because I have a better (and more profitable) venture-funded real estate company - but I can't shout it to the world like Redfin does, because I haven't figured out a way to scale our company while keeping our same quality of service. So I can't advertise or blog about it, and I have to turn customers away because we can't keep up with our current demand. Being the guy with a better widget who can't manufacture enough to meet demand may be a "nice problem to have", but it's extremely frustrating. At this point, I'm trying to avoid going down the "referral partners" path because that largely defeats some of our advantages. So, yeah, I'll have the sour grapes.

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#39
post #38

I was going to try to respond to a bunch of points people made here and on the Techcrunch site about the Redfin story, but unfortunately I didn't have the time to do individual responses while it was still a relatively active thread. So, instead, I'm going to just make a bitch list here now, in an attempt to start a new discussion. 'Cuz, you know, bitch lists are so productive ;-) Here is what I've started with, in r…

3. I'm pissed at some Flat Fee MLS companies.

[This is basically a throwaway, but I bring it up because of the guy posting everywhere at TechCrunch.] Flat fee MLS is a way to save money if you're 100% sure you know what you're doing in selling your own home. For roughly $299-499, you can get your property listed on the local MLS. If you offer a commission to buyer agents, as they require, you will have accomplished almost everything a LAZY agent would have done for you. (If you're greedy, and refuse to pay a cooperating broker fee to buyer agents, you will not be able to list on most MLSs per their rules, and you will have lost roughly 80% of the buyer's market. Why should an MLS association or buyer agent provide their time and resources to help you sell your home for no compensation? Do YOU work for free?) One issue with flat fee MLS companies is that many, but not all, (knowingly) violate their state's 'minimum service guarantee' laws, because it is often difficult for them to do what they're actually supposed to do for that small amount of money. Not all states have these laws, but most do. If you go the Flat Fee MLS listing route, you should just know what you're getting for the money. Some companies are horrible and they blow smoke up your butt without alerting you to the downsides and dangers of this approach. They could improve, for example, by giving you a list of things that you are legally forbidden from saying when you're showing your home, and a list of things you MUST disclose. A second issue with this is that you probably DON'T know what you're doing in selling your own home, even though you think you do. Which goes to issue three...

Re: Redfin Turns Profitable, Real Estate Industry Shudders

#40
post #38

I was going to try to respond to a bunch of points people made here and on the Techcrunch site about the Redfin story, but unfortunately I didn't have the time to do individual responses while it was still a relatively active thread. So, instead, I'm going to just make a bitch list here now, in an attempt to start a new discussion. 'Cuz, you know, bitch lists are so productive ;-) Here is what I've started with, in r…

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