The outcry in the US over requiring someone to show an ID to vote is one of the most bizarre things to come out of that country. And, to make it even more unusual, it's coming from the left, the very people who used to love issuing IDs, numbers, and whose intellectual and ideological predecessors set up most of those schemes.
Practically, as much as the anarchist in me doesn't like that, you cannot have a mass society without strong, trusted IDs so this is a lost cause. Get used to them.
Any electoral fraud that relies on having bunches of people vote multiple times necessarily relies on there being a conspiracy of >100 people in order for it to be effective (this is the only kind of fraud that can be prevented by demanding that voters produce photo ID). But if a conspiracy is required, then why not address that directly? Offer a $500,000 reward and immunity to any one who provides information about…
I think the most common type of fraud that occurs is voting by people who are not eligible to do so (e.g., because they’re not US citizens). I don’t know on what scale this occurs, but I believe there have been documented instances. A lot of it is probably politically motivated (trying to make it easier vs. harder for lower-income, likely Democratic, voters to register), but the fear of a small number of non-citizens voting based on an immigration issue, for example, and thereby affecting the result of a close election seems at least plausible.
Any electoral fraud that relies on having bunches of people vote multiple times necessarily relies on there being a conspiracy of >100 people in order for it to be effective (this is the only kind of fraud that can be prevented by demanding that voters produce photo ID). But if a conspiracy is required, then why not address that directly? Offer a $500,000 reward and immunity to any one who provides information about…
How does vote fraud necessarily rely on a conspiracy? In many states, knowing someone's name and address is sufficient to vote as that person as long as they've previously registered. Any individual can show up at the polling place multiple times and vote as someone else and it would be very difficult to prove they'd done so.
Because you need a large enough number to actually make a difference. 1 person going from place to place voting over and over could only get a certain number of votes in over a few weeks.
Could one person put 200 votes in if they really worked at it? Maybe, but realistically 200 votes just won't do it. You basically need a conspiracy.
I don't know what the fuck makes me more sick: 1) that in the US, an electricity bill is sufficient for voting ID purposes (WTF) or 2) that the US don't have mandatory ID cards. Even our new German ID cards only cost €20 apiece, and if you're too poor you can get benefits. Hello, ID fraud.
An electricity bill /and/ being registered in your district. It is not like you can take an electricity bill to any poll location and vote. 20 Euros might not seem like much but if you are making minimum wage it can be significant. And what if you lose your ID? Or you don't have access to the documentation to get an ID right away? Or you are a college student and your residence is with your parents? The fact is that…
"It is not like you can take an electricity bill to any poll location and vote."
I don't know what the fuck makes me more sick: 1) that in the US, an electricity bill is sufficient for voting ID purposes (WTF) or 2) that the US don't have mandatory ID cards. Even our new German ID cards only cost €20 apiece, and if you're too poor you can get benefits. Hello, ID fraud.
Well plenty of people in the USA and the UK have serious issues with mandatory ID cards.
And given Germanys recent past you should be the last Country in Europe to be happy about ID Cards.
The outcry in the US over requiring someone to show an ID to vote is one of the most bizarre things to come out of that country. And, to make it even more unusual, it's coming from the left, the very people who used to love issuing IDs, numbers, and whose intellectual and ideological predecessors set up most of those schemes. Practically, as much as the anarchist in me doesn't like that, you cannot have a mass societ…
The American left is opposed to voter ID because it's a vote suppression scheme -- not all eligible voters have IDs or have access to obtain them. The voter ID bills have gone hand-in-hand with restrictions on early voting and same-day voter registration, which makes the intention clear. On the other hand, I have yet to see one of these bills accompanied by legislation intended to help people without IDs get them.
I don't know what the fuck makes me more sick: 1) that in the US, an electricity bill is sufficient for voting ID purposes (WTF) or 2) that the US don't have mandatory ID cards. Even our new German ID cards only cost €20 apiece, and if you're too poor you can get benefits. Hello, ID fraud.
Not being required to have an ID card is something we Americans find to be an important freedom. Many (myself included) feel that requiring people to have an ID card is a slippery slope towards requiring people to show that ID card on demand. The idea of an authority figure being able to 'ask for your papers' is a scary one for us.
As the article said, voter fraud is NOT really a problem. No one has ever been able to demonstrate that people illegally voting or voting more than once has happened enough to ever change an election. We want to make it as easy to vote as possible to encourage everyone to vote.
It is interesting how USA is portrayed as a leading country. Amongst things, What is the point of having to register to vote. All the fucked up bureaucracy that USA has reminds me more of a dictatorship than a democracy.
one person = one vote, so you need to track who voted. I don't think the way we do it is necessarily effective, but that's the justification. Your other comments are probably justified though.
Yes, but other countries do voting without the need to pre-register. Some US states (e.g. Iowa) do voting with same day registration.
I might actually be okay with an ID requirement if we also got rid of the previous registration requirement.