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I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

theguardian.com

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Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#451

Post by koide »

jayjoy wrote: post #444
gldalmaso wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what the US doesn't realize Except that they do realize that (US government and military are not stupid). Everything is right on track on their book. War on terror correlates directly to political climate for authoritarian policy Side effect of war on terror correlates directly to produce more terror More terror correlates directly to more war on terror It's a positive feedback. They are aware.

it's irrelevent. One party has nothing to loose while the other does.

Naive.

Neither terrorists nor military leaders have anything to lose.

The ones who actually lose are those who have no say in the matter: civilians and cannon fodder.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#452

Post by madaxe_again »

philwelch wrote: post #123
sleepyK wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But unfortunately, it always is. American life, and American citizenship is more precious than any other life. I know it's not the same issue, but throughout the whole NSA snooping revelations, Americans have only been concerned by the legality of spying on their own citizens. All of us foreigners are fair game. This is similar. The value of an American life is much more than that of a foreigner's life.

It's not an American thing. It's the human condition. I don't care where you live, if someone who lives down the street from you and looks like you gets killed, you care more about that than about someone on the other side of the world. That's how people work.

That's how people with an inadequate exposure to multiple cultures during childhood work.... such as most Americans, sadly, who remain fantastically insular. As a British kid in US school for a year, I was astounded to find that of this group of "elite" children, only two (other than myself) had ventured beyond Illinois, and one abroad - to Canada.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#453

Post by GotAnyMegadeth »

jmccree wrote: post #336
mark_l_watson wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that the situation is worse now than in the past.

How so? Most americans have unfiltered access to the internet where they can get far more information than the old days of having 1 or 2 local newspapers and 3 TV broadcast networks.

Maybe that is why people feel things are worse now. Things were no different before, but people had no idea, now they have some idea.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#454

Post by sumedh »

gnufied wrote: post #432
ars_technician wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They dare not do the same against, Russia, China or even India. Is there proof that terrorist organization leaders are operating in those countries unchecked?

Actually I gave 2 examples of India (as much it dismays as an Indian) and US where these countries have supported so called "Freedom fighters". The reality is Pakistan or Yemen does not want terrorist on their ground more than me and you. They want them gone too. But the so called drone strikes and random killings make people angry, so there is a grass root support for terrorist organisations (at least in certain par…

> The reality is Pakistan or Yemen does not want terrorist on their ground more than me and you.

I dont know about Yemen but some of the Pakistani terrorist camps are actively supported by the Pakistan military.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#455

Post by hbags »

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

It saddens me that your thoughtless and damaging response is pinned to the top.

Right now we have one major source of news about drone programs: government PR. It is biased and one-sided.

The Guardian has found a legitimate source of an additional perspective and they are adding it to the public's understanding. And you are somehow claiming that this makes things worse. That is bullshit.

The only people hurt by this are pro-war assholes who view reminders that war sucks as being problematic to your twisted causes.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#456

Post by hbags »

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

Your post is bullshit, and you are attempting to manipulate us.

Your argument comes down to this: people should not be reminded that war is hell. That's it. That's the entire crux if your poorly considered post.

If you're a pro-war sociopath, then you have a point. If you prefer a well-informed populace, then you have no point at all.

Worse than that, you're attacking people who can add additional perspective solely because they're not providing every perspective simultaneously. It is morally disgusting that you claim The Guardian damaged the search for truth by adding counterpoint to existing propaganda efforts.

It is truly sad that you felt the need to attack The Guardian for writing this. You are eloquent, but deeply misguided.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#457

Post by dragontamer »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #355
dba7dba wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> When due process is undermined, the population becomes more alienated from the government, and more individuals become radicalized, and more terrorism happens. How many lives of soldiers would be risked and how much money would be spent for operations to 'capture' the terrorists in foreign nations? And will nations like Pakistan allow military (or law enforcement) operations on their soil by foreign govts to captu…

Could you not just as easily argue that drone operations take place there because they're powerless against them? Perhaps it's also their inability to protect their population adequately that America take advantage of. In my opinion the real issue here is that innocent civilians are getting killed in a nation America have no official presence in, and certainly no state of war with and where there is no chance of reco…

Sure there is recourse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11...

The Pakistani Government officially supports these strikes. But their public image demands them to publicly be against the strikes.

Pakistan's government can end the under-the-table deal and officially make the Drone Strikes illegal. However, as it is right now, the drone strikes are sanctioned by Pakistan.

Its a great deal for Pakistan, and it aligns well with the US's goals. Win/win for both countries, all else considered. Whenever the US leaves Afghanistan / Pakistan for good, the Pakistani government retains their good will with their people, the US takes the bad PR garbage associated with the war... and the world becomes a safer place in the long term.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#458

Post by philwelch »

madaxe_again wrote: post #452
philwelch wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an American thing. It's the human condition. I don't care where you live, if someone who lives down the street from you and looks like you gets killed, you care more about that than about someone on the other side of the world. That's how people work.

That's how people with an inadequate exposure to multiple cultures during childhood work.... such as most Americans, sadly, who remain fantastically insular. As a British kid in US school for a year, I was astounded to find that of this group of "elite" children, only two (other than myself) had ventured beyond Illinois, and one abroad - to Canada.

Did you not also perceive that Illinois is in the middle of nowhere? If you're in England you might end up in Paris just on a bender (citation: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2509837/Teenager-wen...).

Still, judging from the actions of the democratically elected UK government, you lot don't seem to do much better...

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#459

Post by wavefunction »

kyleblarson wrote: post #191

The Nobel Foundation must be facepalming a lot these days after O's peace prize.

I would say they deserve the damage to the "brand," if not so many previous awardees had similarly questionable contributions to "peace."

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#460

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Houshalter wrote: post #386
philwelch wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an American thing. It's the human condition. I don't care where you live, if someone who lives down the street from you and looks like you gets killed, you care more about that than about someone on the other side of the world. That's how people work.

But there is no reason it has to be that way. For most of human history we lived in small tribes of a hundred people or so, and everyone pretty much cared only for the people in their own tribe. But then we moved on to entire cities of thousands, where you likely didn't know everyone else, but it was still possible to care for strangers because they were still part of your "tribe". Then we moved on to nations with mi…

The reality is, your brain cannot process that many close connections so you are inevitably limited.
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