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Girls Who Code

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Re: Girls Who Code

#341

Post by yarblockos »

johnbm wrote: post #317
calibraxis wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Communist hunters? Because I could have sworn we were smart folks trying to make the world a better place. No, more like misogynist-racist-capitalist hunters. We HN types are trying to profit. At best grabbing so much money with uninspiring "tech" that some will assume their rightful place as benevolent plutocrats playing SimEarth. > Shanley never misses a chance to go after Sarah Lacy Anyone can see for themselves…

And when guys in tech mention to Shanley that they too have pet trolls who send them nasty things, she ignores them.

[Citation Needed]

Re: Girls Who Code

#342

Post by hyperpape »

berrypicker wrote: post #322
vacri wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet I rarely hear about the cultural problem of not having enough males in nursing, or how we can encourage more male nurses.... Why is that? Because you're not reading the discussions in the nursing industry. It's a recognised problem there and they do want more men involved. The technical world also has a much larger online presence, unsurprisingly. Same goes for elementary school teachers. Same goes for elementary…

>they do want more men involved. Why is it so important in modern society that every area has an even split of men and women and the right quota of every ethnicity?

1) Unless there is reason to believe that the skills involved in doing a good job are widely different between genders, it represents a waste of human talent.

2) Unless there is reason to believe that interest in the job is widely different between genders (and that this difference either causes no unhappiness/difference in social status, or is completely unavoidable) it represents a loss of potential happiness.

This isn't rocket science.

Re: Girls Who Code

#343

Post by targusman »

johnbm wrote: post #316
codahale wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching you clutch your pearls is fucking hilarious, so I've set up a weekly donation of a fair chunk of change to Shanley's Gittip account. Keep up the good work.

Yes, it's so great for women in open source that the only 2 women in the Gittip top 12 are there because they whine and bitch a lot, rather than produce something useful. Keep white knighting. Both are known for pulling facts out of their ass that are either unsupported or contradicted by evidence.

I agree... how come real women developers like Lynn Root, Audrey Roy, Audrey Tan, Jessica McKellar aren't on the top of the gittip list? Its because of whitenighting!

Re: Girls Who Code

#344

Post by johnbm »

yarblockos wrote: post #341
johnbm wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when guys in tech mention to Shanley that they too have pet trolls who send them nasty things, she ignores them.

[Citation Needed]

That applies to every single blog post about "white men" she's every written. Her first. Besides, don't want to draw the ire of the twitter harpies... again.

Re: Girls Who Code

#345

Post by TheCoelacanth »

velis_vel wrote: post #237
reinhardt wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much. The definition of sexism also involves endless discussions about the almost last job category still ruled by the evil patriarchy - computer engineers - among the 15 projected to grow the most over the next decade [1]. For the record, the only other male dominated job category is janitors but I somehow doubt it faces similar outrage by the gender equality knight templars. [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/ma…

> For the record, the only other male dominated job category is janitors but I somehow doubt it faces similar outrage by the gender equality knight templars. I'm really curious where you got this information because it doesn't agree with anything else I've read. Among other things, about 75% of US doctors are male[1]. [1] http://www.hschange.com/CONTENT/1078/

That's of the 15 job categories expected to grow the most over the next decade. Doctors likely aren't one of those high-growth categories.

Re: Girls Who Code

#346

Post by philwelch »

bermanoid wrote: post #294
philwelch wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone rubs you wrong personally, why in the world would that not be relevant, especially on a small team? Because business decisions should be made based upon facts and data, not based upon hunches and gut feelings. Going with your gut basically means throwing out the data and letting all of your personal biases decide the matter, consciously or unconsciously. If it's a question of being able to work with othe…

Ok, I can buy that - your point is that you should be attempting to get an unbiased estimate of how well someone works on a team, not that it shouldn't matter. Totally reasonable. Much more difficult, but a worthwhile goal. I feel like it might be almost impossible to remove gut feeling from the equation alogether, though, since a lot of the problems that wreck teams really do come down to "X really doesn't like Y's…

People who experience personality conflicts with each other can be civil to each other and interact in a professional capacity. Not being able to do that might be a problem, but we're all adults here.

Re: Girls Who Code

#347

Post by dragonwriter »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #268
azakai wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just going to throw this out here: only about 10% of nurses are male. Yet I rarely hear about the cultural problem of not having enough males in nursing, or how we can encourage more male nurses. Perhaps because you mostly read tech news sites, and not nursing news sites. This stuff (in both tech and nursing) rarely reaches the mainstream news sources, so people not involved in the industry generally are unawar…

Perhaps because you mostly read tech news sites, and not nursing news sites. This stuff (in both tech and nursing) rarely reaches the mainstream news sources, so people not involved in the industry generally are unaware of it. That's a good point. However, I was watching something on TV just yesterday about getting women into programming. My perception is that trying to get more women into programming is a much more…

> However, I was watching something on TV just yesterday about getting women into programming. My perception is that trying to get more women into programming is a much more popular issue than getting men into nursing.

Sure, you see it on TV more because it better fits a canned mass media narrative about the progress of women into male-dominated, well-paid, percieved-as-high-status professions. That doesn't mean its considered more of a focus in the relevant professions.

Its a mistake to assume that the frequency and intensity with which something appears in the mass media is somehow a reliable guide to anything about its significance outside mass media.

> If we kept up with industry news would we observe more "get women to be garbage collectors" and "get men into preschool education" news?

Garbage collectors I'm less sure of, but, yes, getting more men into most all levels of secondary-and-earlier education is a not-insignificant issue.

Re: Girls Who Code

#348

Post by philwelch »

theorique wrote: post #331
luigi wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's telling that we only know him as "the guy from PlayHaven" while we all know Adria Richards by name. In that picture Adria took at PyCon, I'm not even sure which guy got fired. Okay, so the PlayHaven guy got fired. Adria had death threats made against her, was the subject of a beheading picture, had her home address and phone number publicized, her employer was DDOSed, and she was ultimately fired, like the PlayH…

Okay, so the PlayHaven guy got fired. Adria had death threats made against her, was the subject of a beheading picture, had her home address and phone number publicized, her employer was DDOSed, and she was ultimately fired, like the PlayHaven guy. Neither one is acceptable. The mob action is obviously worse , but both punishments were wrong. What should have happened (wishful thinking I know) is that AR could have t…

This kind of thinking is anathema to SJW ideology. Example: https://twitter.com/eassumption/status/416999484581625856

Re: Girls Who Code

#349

Post by GhotiFish »

davidf18 wrote: post #216

I am a male who started programming in my early teens on large computers at a major tech university along with other boys who were passionate about programming computers (and working on bicycles, in garages, etc.). We tried to get girls interested but they were not interested in programming computers, they had other interests which is alright. You do not need computer science course to start programming. What you nee…

is the eye test baiting me?!

INSERT INTO EyesTest VALUES('al', 'Male', 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 2, 1, 0, 3, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 2, 3, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 3, 2, 2, 3, 0, 1, 1, 0, 3, 2, 3, 2, 22, '207.216.200.118', '2013-12-30 17:22:41')

I bet you they've long since lost their database.

Re: Girls Who Code

#350

Post by johnbm »

aphyr wrote: post #340
johnbm wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gay and I feel exactly the same way about this whole farce. The idea that no straight person can truly sympathize is bullshit... and when it comes from those who complain about a lack of empathy in others, I just scratch my head. The irony is of course, they are themselves the most privileged around: white, educated tech employees in Silicon Valley.

On the contrary, I believe strongly in the importance of allies.

"Ally" is just another in the long line of useless SJW concepts. How about just not being homophobic or sexist? But no, that's not deemed sufficient. Privilege is basically the SJW take on Original Sin, and declaring yourself to be an ally is like self-flaggelating yourself into repentance.

You don't need to ally yourself with every gay person to not be a homophobe, and you don't need to ally yourself with every woman to not be a sexist.

The people who want "allies" tend to be surrounded by unquestioning fans and tend to get their panties in a bunch when faced with actual criticism, deserved or not. If you believe that any criticism you receive happens because you are gay or because you are a woman, then "allies" are the only people who won't upset your delicate sensibilities.

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