Still, this is all from the implications of messing with the 1996 telecommunications act, allowing duopoly, preventing cities from offering broadband, and crushing the small guys. Too bad so few spoke up then; the balance of power has been against us ever since.
We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
61–70 of 275 posts
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed totally, except for the order of what should happen. The monopolies, which are usually granted by agreements with local governments , should end first.
How do you propose to distribute access to fiber networks laid in public land, then? Are the new competitors in these markets going to make individual contracts with every property owner they come in contact with, too?
I don't know .. that's something to be debated, however it does impinge on my individual freedom if my government decides who can wire what to my house. I did not personally agree to grant any corporation such a right.
Until then, arguments that net neutrality violates the freedom of the ISPs don't hold up, as any state-enforced monopolies must be considered at least partially public property.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#63I consider everybody here very smart. In many cases smarter than myself. Therefore, could somebody please explain why we would give the government, which has shown itself to be terribly incompetent with technology issues, the ability to enforce net neutrality? Seriously, I can't get over the dissonance here. If it's such a shitty idea, let consumers decide. Google Fiber et al will just eat the major telecoms' lunch s…
The problem is that telecom is already a heavy regulated area (for historical and technical reasons). Besides this, connecting to your competitor network is going to be always a rigged game, just a handful of players will connect between them, that leads to monopoly... So I think it is virtually impossible to setup your own new company... I live in France and it is quite interesting to see the raise of the provider F…
Free has traffic shaping for anything going through their peering, but in particular apple and google.
Good luck using youtube via free's peering. it's nearly impossible. I don't know many people on free.fr that use youtube at all, because it's too terribly slow (1min load for 3s of video?). It's barely acceptable for things like google play downloads.
Their peering isn't net neutral at all.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#64We are getting hustled[1].
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#65I consider everybody here very smart. In many cases smarter than myself. Therefore, could somebody please explain why we would give the government, which has shown itself to be terribly incompetent with technology issues, the ability to enforce net neutrality? Seriously, I can't get over the dissonance here. If it's such a shitty idea, let consumers decide. Google Fiber et al will just eat the major telecoms' lunch s…
Your argument is that the free market will favor ISPs that support/don't oppose net-neutrality. I argue that most people won't care about their "choice" (air quotes, because most people can't pick from more than 2 ISPs) of ISP until it's too late. Already you have ISPs throttling access to streaming video sites (netflix, youtube, twitch) with little to no REAL blowback. With the barriers to entry as high as they are,…
>Google Fiber, in markets where it's available, has led to competitors reducing prices and offering better service. However, there's no word of change regarding net neutrality.
As a KC resident, TWC has not yet reduced my internet costs or increased speeds.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ehm, but Google Fiber doesn't respect net neutrality, see multiple posts on HN about them forbidding servers on the network...
That has absolutely nothing to do with net neutrality. Forbidding servers on their network is a completely rational stance for them to take. Do you also get upset at "all-you-can-eat" buffets when they don't let you fill a barrel full of food to take home and eat later?
How can they distinguish personal vs pro servers? They have to inspect the contents, which to me seems related to net neutrality.
The comparison should rather be "Do you get upset at buffets when they don't let you have the main dish after dessert?" They use content inspection to increase their revenue.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that telecom is already a heavy regulated area (for historical and technical reasons). Besides this, connecting to your competitor network is going to be always a rigged game, just a handful of players will connect between them, that leads to monopoly... So I think it is virtually impossible to setup your own new company... I live in France and it is quite interesting to see the raise of the provider F…
Free has traffic shaping for anything going through their peering, but in particular apple and google. Good luck using youtube via free's peering. it's nearly impossible. I don't know many people on free.fr that use youtube at all, because it's too terribly slow (1min load for 3s of video?). It's barely acceptable for things like google play downloads. Their peering isn't net neutral at all.
I think I dont notice because I use VPN all the time.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#68The toothpaste is out of the tube already, people know what freedom online tastes like. Bad news for old money - the Internet has an appetite for rentier blood. This will not be tolerated long term.
thats generally how that stuff starts to be tolerated. "it wont fly so i don't care".
then since there is a HUGE financial interest, they try again, and again and again, and nobody's to block them, it eventually works.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your argument is that the free market will favor ISPs that support/don't oppose net-neutrality. I argue that most people won't care about their "choice" (air quotes, because most people can't pick from more than 2 ISPs) of ISP until it's too late. Already you have ISPs throttling access to streaming video sites (netflix, youtube, twitch) with little to no REAL blowback. With the barriers to entry as high as they are,…
>Google Fiber, in markets where it's available, has led to competitors reducing prices and offering better service. However, there's no word of change regarding net neutrality. As a KC resident, TWC has not yet reduced my internet costs or increased speeds.
I'll say my only knowledge of this was anecdotal (from others)
I can say first hand, that if you call your ISP and say "I'm switching to X service at $Y for Zmbps" you can get your bill reduced.
Re: We’re About to Lose Net Neutrality
#70I consider everybody here very smart. In many cases smarter than myself. Therefore, could somebody please explain why we would give the government, which has shown itself to be terribly incompetent with technology issues, the ability to enforce net neutrality? Seriously, I can't get over the dissonance here. If it's such a shitty idea, let consumers decide. Google Fiber et al will just eat the major telecoms' lunch s…
> If it's such a shitty idea, let consumers decide.
If you leave it up to the prisoners, they will both rat each other out resulting in the worst possible outcome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma). Assuming that consumers will decide what is best for the whole of society is simply incorrect. "Internet innovation" is very much one of those big picture goals where I think some community planning (e.g. government intervention) would help the outcome.