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I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

theguardian.com

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Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#301

Post by neals »

pygy_ wrote: post #269
neals wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am being sarcastic, right now. Please tell me you live in a world of grown-ups where progress and sacrifice go hand in hand.

In reply to your edit to the parent post: robots won't take over for us. If they are ever in such a position of power, they'll get rid of us. I'm not exactly looking forwards to it. Among other things, human history is the combined evolution of sociological and technological progress. Societal progress has peaked a while ago. Technology has been riding the curiosity and mental ability of the most brilliant among us,…

None of this is based on facts or study. I like the fiction you present though.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#302

Post by [deleted] »

lemmsjid wrote: post #291
jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

I try to put myself in the shoes of the potential drone targets. I live in Los Angeles, which seems to be the official city of the police helicopter (always followed closely by the news helicopter, because the possibility of violence is entertainment). Over the years it's gotten to the point where multiple times a week they're buzzing around the neighborhood, stabbing the backyard with their searchlights. I've never…

[deleted]

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#303

Post by artellectual »

I think it's pretty clear that, the US army looks out for one nation only the U S of A, they are definitely making it clear that humanities best interest is not their long term goal. They look out for their own, I think we all live in a world where we all look out for our own. The US army are no better than the terrrorists who took the innocent lives of Americans. Honestly the US is just a big bully and what it all comes down to is media, they've brain washed the entire nation to make it seem like all these drone attacks are ok, they're not severe, they're not as bad as it sounds, justifying it through fancy words the common people can't understand. The fact is its usually worse than it sounds but most people just choose to switch off from it because no one wants to think about these depressing things, and by switching off their brains they are empowering the politicians that pull the triggers.

It's never ok when innocent people die, innocent civilians of the US don't want innocent civilians of other nations to die. The fact of the matter is it's not these civilians who are pulling the trigger.

The way I see it we all follow a pattern. In the US you have 2 big political parties, democrat and republican. I mean no one ever questions why we let these dickheads stay in power? Why isn't there a third, fourth or a fifth party? They have fabricated a world and a media were they have basically brain washed the entire world. I mean honestly do u think having 2 parties take turn in power is a democracy? What it all comes down to is to not give them the power. I think in every nation all around the world not voting is as powerful as voting. Breaking that pattern and having that critical thinking, to call the politicians bullshit, and impeach the shit out of them when they fuck up and lie, that conviction to get up and do the right thing. But that will never happen, because it's too hard, because we've all been brain washed, becuase everyone is busy living their lives.

I think the American people have forgotten that their government exist to serve them not the other way around, when you pay tax your paying for a service, when you not getting the service you asked for, you should get up and do something.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#304

Post by pessimizer »

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

This is the definition of FUD. You're arguing that the Guardian shouldn't be trusted because the government should be trusted because war is hell, issues are complex, truth is helpful, and lies are not helpful, and Fox News.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#305

Post by neals »

jaekwon wrote: post #233
classicsnoot wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one ever wants to portray death as a technical aberration because it is an icky feeling. Also, people love to be self righteous and condescending because it adds millimetres to their imaginary pedestal. Just to rile them up more, which guy campaigning for president in 2008 had killed more Americans by hand, McCain or Obama? The answer is shocking, but not unbelievable. My grandfather was a naval aviator. He told m…

Surely you're intelligent enough to see the distinction between Barber surgeons, grave robbers, and killing machines. There's a whole world of applications for AI and machinery that we could be pooling our resources into, but instead we're funding a continuing war on "terror" abroad. There's no reason why the war is necessary, no reason why technological progress would be made faster in the art of killing vs anything…

War is the only way forward. The funding of war machines comes from a desire to survive. A fear to die. This will always take precedence over any other kind of progress.

Stop investing in start-ups and a couple of people will be a little less wealthy. Stop investing in the military and we and/or our way of live dies within a decade.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#306

Post by phaus »

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

>"How many soldiers have you seen die on the side of a road in Afghanistan because our ever-so-accurate UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicle] were unable to detect an IED [improvised explosive device] that awaited their convoy?"

Right from the start the author veers of into things that have absolutely nothing to do with the viability of drone warfare.

Using the authors logic, every single piece of equipment we have that wasn't designed specifically to prevent death by IED should be abandoned. Guess we don't need guns, uniforms, canteens, body armor, etc.

The author does have some valid criticisms, but they are obscured by ridiculous tangents like this one.

As for my own thoughts, I think that drones are a valid tool, but I also think that our government needs to use them in a far more responsible manner.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#307

Post by neals »

wreegab wrote: post #166
neals wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem very opinionated about this. I haven't given this as much thought as you have, but I think that doing something to protect your society from evil must count for something. Do you really see it as black and white as you describe it?

> "I think that doing something to protect your society from evil must count for something. Do you really see it as black and white as you describe it?" There is something ironic in there.

Care the clarify so I can proof you wrong?

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#308

Post by pessimizer »

ars_technician wrote: post #297
Helianthus wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I thought it worked pretty well. Prim posturing, however, I find bland.

Sarcasm is a tool for someone that can't actually come up with a counter-argument. It's an appeal to absurdity combined with a strawman. Exaggerate the other side's point until it sounds ridiculous and pretend that's an argument.

Did you detect an argument in the OP to be responded to? The argument that people die in war, perhaps? The Fox News argument? The argument that if they're bombing weddings now, they were probably bombing villages before?

The sarcasm seemed to be based on the fact that you can agree that truth is good and falsehood is bad and not see that as a reason to dismiss the Guardian piece.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#309

Post by atmosx »

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

> We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read.

Agreed. Let's start with the basics: WTF is doing a UK/USA-driven drone in the middle east anyway?

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#310

Post by yeukhon »

frostmatthew wrote: post #128
yeukhon wrote: post #7

> The UAV's in the Middle East are used as a weapon, not as protection, and as long as our public remains ignorant to this Honestly, it has always been seen as a weapon. The whole point of drone is to carry out mission 24/7 as much as possible, because a pilot can't fly back and forth without sleeping. Also, humans have emotions they don't always follow orders. > incredibly difficult for the best analysts to identify…

> The whole point of drone is to carry out mission 24/7 as much as possible, because a pilot can't fly back and forth without sleeping. Humans are still required to fly the drones. The "whole point" is that drones can accomplish the same mission without risking a pilot and at a fraction of the cost of a manned aircraft.

Well, in the future we will replace human pilots with automated flying drones. Sure we still have drones require human flying.
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