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A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

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Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#141

Post by Locke1689 »

moomin wrote: post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

Ah, but you forgot to note that this language is being developed in the context of a research operating system, so there's no guarantee it even runs on Windows ;)

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#142

Post by acqq »

mpg33 wrote: post #98
moomin wrote: post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

I don't see why Microsoft would create something that would work on other systems....they want people to use Windows.

And they even let their the conflicts of interests influence the development of their programming languages. C# is the best example. There are more reasons why C# has poorer performance and less libraries outside of Windows but most can be tracked to the interest in Microsoft to have something tightly enough controlled and bound to Windows.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#143

Post by Locke1689 »

shadowmint wrote: post #29
InclinedPlane wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how languages in the .net ecosystem have worked in the past. C# is an open, ecma standard, as is the specification of the common language infrastructure (the VM/byte-code design for running .net programs). And MS publishes the language specifications for VB and F#. That's why it's possible to run .net code on linux without ever paying MS. There's even an open source F# compiler. Moreover, the .net compiler…

The idea that MS is out to envelope developers by enticing them into a language that requires massive cash outlays or *ongoing licensing fees* is not supported by reality. ... The only requirement being that they run on a Windows OS Mhm. Yes, I suppose you can run some C# on a non-windows machine, but it'll have bugs, break, some libraries won't be supported and there's no tooling support. ...but don't worry, you can…

What would make you happy here?

Would open sourcing the C# compiler be enough? Open sourcing .NET? Providing .NET support and development for Linux?

I'm honestly just curious, not to put you on the spot.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#145

Post by samirahmed »

sergiotapia wrote: post #103

I just hope it's not so heavily tied to an IDE. One of the things I really enjoy about using Go and Ruby is that I can use whatever the heck I want to write code. C# was my first language learning and it took a while to shake off the notion that "everything must be done with an IDE".

I couldn't agree more.

That said, I think hidden in your last sentence is the fact that working with C# in an IDE with a statically typed language is such a pleasure.

For most mundane code (loops, linq, if/else), Resharper will literally autocomplete everything.

I really wish other languages offered such tooling at times.

I don't think any other language/IDE combo comes close (in my opinion).

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#146

Post by computerslol »

moomin wrote: post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

It looks like you have a very narrow perspective on C#.

I've never tried running .net on a non-windows platform, so I can't comment in that space. I'll leave that to someone else.

As someone who's built bespoke big data applications, scientific computing (if we're both talking about large scale computation for analytics), desktop applications, server applications/services, and web sites (one of which is within the US top 150 on alexa) in c#; I'll have to disagree that anyone working in the language is stuck with LoB applications and ETL tools.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#147

Post by Sssnake »

sjs1234 wrote: post #131
catnaroek wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go, a systems language? I would not be so sure. Stop-the-world garbage collection and dynamically typed interfaces seem like a poor fit for this niche.

Ack ... I'm largely ignorant of the details of go other than its original positioning. Do the semantics of go constrain gc implementation in such a way that it precludes low latency? Or is it just not a focus of the implementors?

>I'm largely ignorant of the details of go other than its original positioning

It is a faster python with a very primitive type system tacked on. I don't know how they ended up there from their original idea of a systems language, but they did.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#148

Post by Sssnake »

pswenson wrote: post #116
hhariri wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform. And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

kotlin looks cool. But it's missing some minor things that would make it much more friendly: * no regex literals * a little verbose(instead of [] for arrays, it's "Arrays") * hashes IMO should be JSON * why doesn't null evaluate to false? God I hate writing if (a != null). I'm much happier in javascript/ruby/groovy land where if can type "if (!a)" or "unless a" or even cooler "raise Exception("a should not be null")…

>kotlin looks cool except they should do all kinds of dumb stuff as if it were a scripting language

It is a statically typed language designed to try to drag java programmers kicking and screaming into the 1970s. Virtually everything you listed would be a bad change. Just use a language that is actually similar to what you want.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#149

Post by asveikau »

AnthonyAkentiev wrote: post #96
rplnt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yeah, I know about Mono What's wrong with Mono? I worked with C# only briefly and I really liked it (as opposed to Java.. but maybe I just had better tools). If I'd need something a bit faster than python, C# would probably be my choice. That's assuming it's portable to other platforms...

I am big C++ fan, but i understand that the C++ language is going into nowhere. It's like "all in one" solution that is too big, too hard to learn and use nowadays. I've been using C++ for more than 10 years, still many things are shocking me )) I am sure C# is the "Next Main Desktop App Dev. Language". I really wish MS would OPEN-SOURCE it one day. You can read article in my blog about that here (really short): http…

I disagree that C++ is going nowhere. The last few years has had more interesting stuff than most of the language's history.

First C++11 which added lots of interesting stuff. (Lambdas, move constructors, threads as part of the language spec, better smart pointers, and more.) Most of this was added in a very clever "C++ way" - for example lambdas that can be inlined as functors and can take advantage of copy constructors and RAII kind of blows my mind. Major compilers picked it up pretty quickly. Already people are talking about C++14.

I will agree that its history makes it a sort of Byzantine language (I really prefer the simplicity of C for a lot of things), but there is a lot to be optimisitic about for C++ in the last few years. With the latest standards and best practices the language it ought to have been for a long time is finally getting out.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#150

Post by molsson »

alok-g wrote: post #138
molsson wrote: post #100

The homepage of Joe Duffy says "I’ve been granted 45 patents, with another 33 pending" (see his homepage under /about via google cache since the page is down due to load from HN). Bragging about patents doesn't exactly make me like the guy. Has he been living under a rock, why would he write that on his about page? Anyway, he says explicitly that he cannot reveal any details at this point; i.e. Microsoft has filed pa…

>> Joe Duffy says "I’ve been granted 45 patents, with another 33 pending" >> Bragging about patents doesn't exactly make me like the guy. Genuinely asking, do you see putting information on patents as bragging or more generally as a negative? I have also been putting the same on my profile, so would like to understand your viewpoint better to see if I should remove it. My side of the story: I have nearly always worke…

Software patents are contentious issue for some people so it's not something I'd include in a CV or on an open accessible "about page".
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