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Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

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Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#31

This should work with WebRTC ( http://www.webrtc.org/ ) using the reference app: https://apprtc.appspot.com/ It should enable you to connect 2 browsers (e.g. Chrome and Firefox), all you need is to transmit the ID of the chat ("r" parameter from the chat URL you will get) to the peer, or the full URL. It keeps amazing me that we do not have simple JS solutions for this, when projects like Chatroulette can be built in…

There's this: https://talky.io/

Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#32
I've used the webrtc project people link here as well, but it is worth pointing out that Skype has an API. I'm not even a Windows programmer in general, but it only took me an afternoon to write a tiny app for a Mom's five year old that just calls Mom immediately and automatically as soon as it is started and has a locked preferences page for setting everything up.

Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#33
I've been working with WebRTC for a year now building Sqwiggle (https://www.sqwiggle.com) - In my experience I can tell you two things,

- It's not really possible to go entirely peer-to-peer as many networks do not allow for this communication to happen. You would have constant issues with calls not being able to connect. Some centralised service is required for signaling, STUN and TURN which costs money and uses significant amounts of bandwidth.

- Even if you do go peer-to-peer with WebRTC the quality would still be improved by going through a central server (less upstream bandwidth required) [edit: when more than 2 participants]

If you're interested in helping to tackle these problems, we're hiring ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#34
Your title is different from your question. If you're concerned about direct P2P connections, last I checked, Skype still sends voice traffic directly to the peer. I had checked some months ago using a packet sniffer while talking with a known peer. I'm on a mobile device so I can't confirm now, but looking at my wireless router admin console, I still see the UPnP ports Skype has mapped for itself.

However if you want to avoid integration with the Microsoft universe (which should be opt-out IIRC, though I haven't installed Skype on Windows in ages), you may need to look elsewhere. I was about to suggest Google Hangouts, but that's just inviting integration with another universe :-)

WebRTC-based solutions may be a decent option long term, but I'm not convinced they'll work as well as Skype or Hangout, because its NAT traversal is somewhat limited, so some peers may be unreachable, especially if corporate networks are involved. Skype and most P2P software perform a lot of hacks to get past NATs. Hangout, AFAIK, doesn't have these problems as it is server-based.

Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#35
post #33

I've been working with WebRTC for a year now building Sqwiggle ( https://www.sqwiggle.com ) - In my experience I can tell you two things, - It's not really possible to go entirely peer-to-peer as many networks do not allow for this communication to happen. You would have constant issues with calls not being able to connect. Some centralised service is required for signaling, STUN and TURN which costs money and uses s…

> Even if you do go peer-to-peer with WebRTC the quality would still be improved by going through a central server (less upstream bandwidth required)

Why is that?

Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#36
post #35
post #33

I've been working with WebRTC for a year now building Sqwiggle ( https://www.sqwiggle.com ) - In my experience I can tell you two things, - It's not really possible to go entirely peer-to-peer as many networks do not allow for this communication to happen. You would have constant issues with calls not being able to connect. Some centralised service is required for signaling, STUN and TURN which costs money and uses s…

> Even if you do go peer-to-peer with WebRTC the quality would still be improved by going through a central server (less upstream bandwidth required) Why is that?

I should have prefaced that with when there are more than 2 participants... as you would only need to upload your audio/video stream once.

Re: Ask HN: Skype, but properly peer-to-peer?

#37
post #35
post #33

I've been working with WebRTC for a year now building Sqwiggle ( https://www.sqwiggle.com ) - In my experience I can tell you two things, - It's not really possible to go entirely peer-to-peer as many networks do not allow for this communication to happen. You would have constant issues with calls not being able to connect. Some centralised service is required for signaling, STUN and TURN which costs money and uses s…

> Even if you do go peer-to-peer with WebRTC the quality would still be improved by going through a central server (less upstream bandwidth required) Why is that?

yeah that makes no sense, unless there's is more then on participant, in that case a full peer to peer would have to upstream (n-1) streams
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