Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN has no PM system. You'll have to give him an email.
Seems like they should add one. Might be a good reason to learn Scheme... https://github.com/wting/hackernews
What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
171–180 of 255 posts
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#172I am a developer/hacker who spent 6 months in prison about a decade ago. They had a room of old broken computers that were donated and I offered to fix them up in exchange for increased library privileges. Normally inmates could only visit the library once a week and check out two books, but I read about 4 books a day during my time there. I fixed up the computers and supported them once they got a teacher, read my b…
"Once I learned that I should give a little to intimidation so the other party feels in control and powerful, but refuse to be totally controlled because the other party wouldn't risk their early release dates to beat up someone for no good reason, then I did well. It also helped to be able to pay off the local gang leader once a week with a pint of ice cream from the commissary. Protection was relatively inexpensive, all things considered."
There are different ways of seeing things, if it was me getting the ice cream for the gang leader, I would not see that as being in lieu of protection any more than making a cup of tea for the boss in regular world is in lieu of 'protection'. It would be a friendly thing to do for someone that appreciated it.
Did you find that your relatively superior intellect, knowledge and command of the English language was valued more by those inside than those outside? I assume you did not have an 'air of entitlement' from having attended private school. Did this intellect thing not set you apart, outside the hierarchy?
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#173Hmm. He makes no mention of what crime he was convicted of, and expresses no remorse, either. Although he does seem to be feeling regret (which I think is an appropriate function of prison), he sees himself as being a victim -- no other victim is referred to. It seems he's proud of his murdering, home-invading comrades. This is certainly a testament to the failure of prisons (at least in his case). The education he n…
Did you read the whole post?
"I learned many things from inmates that I never learned in my prior life. I learned that you should go straight to the person you're upset with rather than go to authorities. I learned that giving and keeping your word is the ultimate measurement of character. I learned that loyalty is easy to promise, but few really deliver. Don't be that guy. Prison is really a learning crucible since the reactions are so quick and amplified. If you have annoying habits, you'll find out fast. If you are not respectful to others, you'll hear about it and you may get a "tune up" to teach you respect."
He also discusses his background + the negatives of prison life in the comments.
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you want to do all the fun work, and pass off the grindy boring shit to someone else, most of which probably results from your "core" coding? I think I would hate working with you and you're bringing this on yourself. You might have an inflated idea of how good you are at this shit. If you are really good, you won't have much grindy boring work to do. If you're not taking a major part in the final tasks of a proje…
Sometimes people really do enjoy the "boring" work. We're all different.
I have a co-worker who would rather write tests for code on a project he doesn't work on, then write the feature the test is for. He just loves it.
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#175Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#176I am a developer/hacker who spent 6 months in prison about a decade ago. They had a room of old broken computers that were donated and I offered to fix them up in exchange for increased library privileges. Normally inmates could only visit the library once a week and check out two books, but I read about 4 books a day during my time there. I fixed up the computers and supported them once they got a teacher, read my b…
> Also, the stigma of having a criminal record sticks to you forever. Even now, in my middle 30's, it's nearly impossible for me to get a tech job even though my felonious history was from when I was a teenager. You pretty much have to resign yourself to the fact that you'll work at 50% of the salary as your peers or have to make your own future by starting your own companies and projects. You do not have to resign y…
It's awful that our justice system creates this sort of mentality
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, this advice might be helpful in the context of "you're in prison, the person that slighted you is also in prison," but outside of that, it's advice that only serves to aid the aggressor. Also, why are you suggesting that my position is "middle class privilege" when you're suggesting that you understand ad-hoc prison justice systems?
> Sure, this advice might be helpful in the context of "you're in prison, the person that slighted you is also in prison," but outside of that, it's advice that only serves to aid the aggressor. I've actually found "deal directly with the person with whom you have the issue" is a good default rule in most areas of life (work, social, etc.) even where the issue is the kind of thing for which there is an available auth…
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have, but I'm the kind of developer who thinks up the big ideas and can build to 95% but I'm not great at grinding away at that last 5% of bugs. We're valuable, but by no means a rare breed. The rarer breeds are the work-horses that you can throw the results of a QA check to and they work on everything to completion. In startups, it's the founders that typically have the rights to do the planning and core developme…
So you want to do all the fun work, and pass off the grindy boring shit to someone else, most of which probably results from your "core" coding? I think I would hate working with you and you're bringing this on yourself. You might have an inflated idea of how good you are at this shit. If you are really good, you won't have much grindy boring work to do. If you're not taking a major part in the final tasks of a proje…
I'm not the parent, but I'll answer, from my own experience.
The "final tasks" of a project aren't important, in the grand scheme of things, at least, not the way that I work. If I have an idea, let's say "Github" for example, what's the core of the application? Whatever your answer, I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that it isn't "the login page", or "the frequently asked questions", or "what color the navigation bar is".
The 'core' of the application is the interface between git and github. That's also, generally speaking, the 'hard part'... and the developer that can take you from a blank screen to a demo, by his or herself, and can deliver that product to market, is the ideal developer. If you can hire a guy that can take you 95% of the way there, and then outsource the fiddly bits like login and navigation to oDesk or whomever, then you've got a real talent. That is the type of developer the parent seems to be describing, at least to me.
As to his self-understanding, I dramatically prefer working with developers that know where their limitations are, and know where they're not good. I find myself getting bored with the result of a QA report, and it doesn't excite me. Solving a problem excites me. Tweaking an animation to prevent flickery scrolling on IE7 does not excite me. It took me a lot of years to get from being the 95% guy to the 100% guy, but even my 100%ness is qualified -- it has to be within a given set of parameters. For somebody to acknowledge their weaknesses, in my opinion, demonstrates a higher degree of self-awareness than the average person who doesn't.
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
No need for the edit quip. Not everyone has the faith in the man that you do, and for good reason. This, among other reasons that others have covered already.
The edit quip was necessary. I thought that hackernews would be safe from the "internet tough guy" syndrome, but I guess not. I mean, I-get-it. The poor tend to go to jail at a higher rate than their more well-off counterparts for various reasons, but the "don't snitch" bullshit just keeps criminals safe to keep hurting their communities.
You're missing the prereq of building some skills at dealing with people -- not "confronting" them, not attacking them (verbally or physically), but by simply showing them simultaneously that you have a spine but no chip on your shoulder. Then you give them a clean way out of the "misunderstanding" (or sometimes an actual misunderstanding). It's all psychology, and practice.
I'm not an expert at this, but I see people around me all the time doing it so disastrously wrongly that I feel like an expert just by comparison. I have two neighbors (two middle-aged couples) who have been miserable for a couple of years now because they had a minor disagreement (one's improperly-connected waste water system was leaking into the others' property) which they "addressed" by only going to the authorities -- via lawsuits, petitions to regulatory boards, etc. -- instead of resolving it between themselves.
In the end one of them "lost" and one of them "won", but they're both stuck living next door to someone with a virulent hatred for them.
If either side had any real skills at managing conflict this would never have happened.
Most conflicts that happen do not need to involve the authorities -- especially the ones that start small and escalate until the authorities get involved (intentionally or not).
The bar to what kind of conflict merits appealing to authorities first (instead of direct dealing first) is higher if you're in prison, I imagine, but still -- most everyday conflicts start below that bar.
Interpersonal conflicts with co-workers, non-scary problems with neighbors (more "they make a lot of noise at 2am" than "they set my dog on fire"), vandalism, etc..
Another example -- while my wife was in school we lived in a slightly rough neighborhood, and once someone threw a large rock at the front of our house... something about as heavy as a few bricks. It would have easily shattered the window, if it had hit it; instead it broke a bit of siding dropped onto the porch.
I could have hidden and called the police; I could have run outside screaming and threatening the kids that were around. But I thought about it first. I was a faceless white guy to them -- at work much of the time -- and someone was showing off how bad they were and attacking my house.
So instead I went out and spent 20 minutes making myself not a faceless white guy. I talked to everyone I could find -- mostly kids, a few adults -- and just explained what had happened, explained that I wasn't trying to find who had thrown the rock, just wanted to be sure everyone knew what had happened and that it was a dumb idea. I was a dumb kid, once; my dumb mistakes had included setting an empty house on fire, accidentally; so I knew how this kind of stuff happened, but it needed to be stopped before anyone got hurt.
I met a bunch of people (and talked about lots of things other than rocks thrown); afterwards it never happened again, and I felt a hell of a lot safer than if I had just stayed in the house and called the police (who wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing anyway, of course, except their presence would have turned me into a faceless, scared white guy).
All of this has little to do with snitching, with rich/poor (though that is relevant to how useful the authorities are to you, of course...), and more to do with the respect you get for honest dealing, if you can do it intelligently.
Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I no longer have to legally disclose it I could be wrong, but my understanding is that this is not a "luxury" that we enjoy in the U.S. Once you have a conviction, it is there forever. So much for doing your time and paying your debt to society. I really hope I am wrong about this, but I fear that I am not.
It's worth noting that in the UK, convictions become 'spent' (so that you don't have to disclose them when asked) after a certain period of time that varies with the severity of the original sentence. But for some crimes (>48 months in prison) they never become spent. And for some jobs, the 'spent' status does not apply. Those include working with children, joining the police or security services, and a variety of ot…
It was grueling for her to discuss it -- she was trembling and wringing her hands, and it was suddenly obvious why she had been strangely nervous during the entire first part of the interview -- and difficult for us to sit and hear it; not because her crime was awful (her punishment did not involve jail time) but because she was clearly being put through the wringer.
Honestly, it was a factor in us choosing to hire her; otherwise she was fairly even with the other candidates we interviewed, but we were impressed that she was going into a line of work that would require her to make this same confession to strangers many, many more times in the future.
It felt really wrong, regardless. Especially after that experience, I think there should be an expiry date for mistakes like hers.